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PPI Claim rejected

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  • PPI Claim rejected

    Don't think I have a case now, but I'd like people's opinions on this if possible.

    In August 2003 I took out a car loan + PPI. At the time I was a full-time student, working a part-time job (<16 hrs) and claiming WFTC and family allowance. I found the finance company through a broker, who said benefits were acceptable.

    I lodged a claim in August 2009 with a claims firm as I was too busy to pursue the claim myself - I was in the 6 year window, but the claims firm made a dog's dinner of the claim.

    Anyway, back to the mis-sell. When I went into the broker's office to sign the paperwork, I noticed that the agreement amount was different to that which he had told me on the phone. When queried, he told me that it was PPI and it was a condition of the finance agreement - no PPI, no finance. No attempt was made to tell me that it could be had elsewhere or indeed was optional. Reluctantly I signed up.

    The company have since rejected the claim on the basis that they can find no evidence of mis-selling. Their arguements are:

    1) PPI shown as separate item on the policy.
    - Yes, the full cost of the policy was shown. I was told it wasn't optional however.

    2) I signed to agree that all terms were fully explained
    - No, all terms were not fully explained. I was not told PPI was optional (forced upon me.. no PPI, no finance) and that I could cancel at any time.

    3) It was a single premium policy.
    - Cost of finance as I was told was £272. Cost of finance with PPI was £312 over 36 months. Again, no information about right to cancel.

    4) Payslip showing I worked 60 hrs/week despite my claim of <16 hours.
    - They produced 1 payslip showing 60 hrs, which actually covers a 2-week period during the summer break when I wasn't at university.

    5) Job check sheet showing I was declared full-time. Apparently faxed to and filled in by my manager.
    - This was not faxed. The job check was done over the phone (I was there when it was done!). The name of my manager is wrong - they address him on the form as Mr 'first name' which is spelt wrong. It has been signed and dated by the underwriter, not by my manager. I think this document has been fabricated at the time of the check.

    They also say that because the policy is from 2003 I can't refer it to FOS as it falls outside FSA rules on PPI selling.

    I'm livid at this decision, but I guess there is nothing more i can do now. Or is there?

  • #2
    Re: PPI Claim rejected

    loads more you can do on my smartphone at the moment so will be back this evening soon as i can get to my pc
    If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PPI Claim rejected

      Well, they would say that, wouldn't they.

      But they are probably correct about the FOS being unable to help.

      However, I can see no reason why you shouldn't be able to go back and chase them. It will mean you need to raise a claim through the courts yourself. But I think it will be worth it.

      If they say it's outside the 6 year limitation period now, there is a way around this, because they knew full well that PPI was useless to you. And even went so far as to LIE on the form, despite knowing you were on benefits.

      Was this Welcome Finance, by any chance?

      Oh, you might like to ask for underwriting sheets for the insurance, and let them know you'll be asking them to produce them in court.
      My Blog
      http://cabotfanclub.wordpress.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PPI Claim rejected

        Right all though they may be right in the statute of limitations is 6 yrs, they did not tell you for obvious reasons that the limitation period does not run until you have discovered the mistake.

        The mistake being that you where missold PPI.

        You are taking action for the relief of a financial mistake.

        The law is below:-

        32 Postponement of limitation period in case of fraud, concealment or mistake

        (1) Subject to [F1subsection (3)][F1subsections (3) and (4A)] below, where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either—
        (a)the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or
        (b)any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or
        (c)the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;
        the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.
        References in this subsection to the defendant include references to the defendant’s agent and to any person through whom the defendant claims and his agent.
        (2)For the purposes of subsection (1) above, deliberate commission of a breach of duty in circumstances in which it is unlikely to be discovered for some time amounts to deliberate concealment of the facts involved in that breach of duty.
        (3)Nothing in this section shall enable any action—
        (a)to recover, or recover the value of, any property; or
        (b)to enforce any charge against, or set aside any transaction affecting, any property;
        to be brought against the purchaser of the property or any person claiming through him in any case where the property has been purchased for valuable consideration by an innocent third party since the fraud or concealment or (as the case may be) the transaction in which the mistake was made took place.
        (4)A purchaser is an innocent third party for the purposes of this section—
        (a)in the case of fraud or concealment of any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action, if he was not a party to the fraud or (as the case may be) to the concealment of that fact and did not at the time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the fraud or concealment had taken place; and
        (b)in the case of mistake, if he did not at that time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the mistake had been made.
        [F2(4A)Subsection (1) above shall not apply in relation to the time limit prescribed by section 11A(3) of this Act or in relation to that time limit as applied by virtue of section 12(1) of this Act.]
        [F3(5)Sections 14A and 14B of this Act shall not apply to any action to which subsection (1)(b) above applies (and accordingly the period of limitation referred to in that subsection, in any case to which either of those sections would otherwise apply, is the period applicable under section 2 of this Act).]
        http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatut...#pt2-pb3-l1g40
        If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PPI Claim rejected

          http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/...2010/132.shtml

          [QUOTE] by Vagabond_UK:
          he told me that it was PPI and it was a condition of the finance agreement - no PPI, no finance.[QUOTE]

          Mis-sold!!!

          And, Pompeyfaith is quite correct

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PPI Claim rejected

            Latest Info from the FSA

            http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/...2010/132.shtml

            http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/policy/ps10_12.pdf

            PF
            ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
            Hehe well done AC snap
            ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
            Remember do not take anything they say as gospel as to them this is a damage limitation exercise.

            You have now found the right place and I would be doing this yourself its not hard specially as you have plenty of kind folk here to help you.

            I note in your first post there is also an element of fraud attached to this well that makes good bargaining power.

            PF
            Last edited by pompeyfaith; 12th August 2010, 17:57:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
            If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PPI Claim rejected

              Also, if you read the full FSA doc. you will note that prior, to their regulation.
              The ABI and subsequent GISC codes will have to observed.

              There is nowhere for them to hide now...give the ripped off consumers back their money!
              ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
              Bl**dy claims firms; GRRRRRRRRRRRR
              Last edited by Angry Cat; 12th August 2010, 17:42:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PPI Claim rejected

                And, Pompeyfaith is quite correct
                Thank you AC

                I just hate it when the Financial Industry comes out with all this drivel, despite the laws being in front of every internet user.

                About time they realised we are not as gullibal as we once were owing to the internet.

                PF
                If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PPI Claim rejected

                  Thanks for the help.

                  Some more info. I've been in touch with my employer at that time who has sent me written details of the contract I was on during my period of employment. Although it isn't the actual contract they have provided, the note clearly states that my contracted hours were <16hrs/week.

                  I've asked my bank to provide copy statements for the 6 months before and after the policy was taken out, so that I could show by the amounts paid in that the payslip they have is not indicitave of my regular pay at that time.

                  I'm friendly with the chap who provided the details for the 'job search' and asked him if he can recall what happened. I have doubts that he can, so this might become my word against theirs.

                  I have a feeling I should send them a SAR in order to see just what they have before I go much further in order to build a case? I wouldn't be confident of going through the courts with what I have.

                  And it wasn't Welcome.. it was a company called College Credit (subsidiary of PCFG - Private & Commercial Finance Group)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PPI Claim rejected

                    As you start this claim in August 2009 and was within the 6 yr rule that the FOS state they can deal with I would still make a complaint to them after all they can only say no.

                    But given the circumstances of this complaint I'm sure they would take it on worth a try.

                    Before giving the FOS any info give them a call and see what they say.

                    PF
                    ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...complaints.htm
                    Last edited by pompeyfaith; 12th August 2010, 18:08:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
                    If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PPI Claim rejected

                      Section 32. My favourite.

                      Plenty of case law to back this up. As Welcome are finding out to their cost. So much so, that they can't take me to court over my outstanding loan, as I will counterclaim, with S32 backing me up for mis sold PPI outwith the 6 year period.
                      My Blog
                      http://cabotfanclub.wordpress.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PPI Claim rejected

                        Originally posted by pompeyfaith View Post
                        As you start this claim in August 2009 and was within the 6 yr rule that the FOS state they can deal with I would still make a complaint to them after all they can only say no.

                        But given the circumstances of this complaint I'm sure they would take it on worth a try.

                        Before giving the FOS any info give them a call and see what they say.

                        PF
                        ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                        http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...complaints.htm
                        Thanks.

                        I think they're trying to claim that they weren't regulated by FSA in 2003, so FOS will not act. However, they never provided the insurance - it was a third party comany, Pinnacle Insurance i believe.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PPI Claim rejected

                          Section 32. My favourite.

                          Plenty of case law to back this up. As Welcome are finding out to their cost. So much so, that they can't take me to court over my outstanding loan, as I will counterclaim, with S32 backing me up for mis sold PPI outwith the 6 year period.
                          Ditto Lugger I owe my bank 6 grand but they also owe me 25 grand in missold ppi so I have them on this and UTTCR 1999 because they cant chase me because there is a "vis a "vis"

                          Not paid them anything as that is my safeguard

                          PF
                          ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                          I think they're trying to claim that they weren't regulated by FSA in 2003, so FOS will not act.
                          Still worth a try give them a ring, they are investigating my complaint which goes back to March 1999.

                          PF
                          ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                          Have you checked this on the FSA register ?

                          PF
                          ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                          Basic details for:

                          405194 - College Credit Limited

                          Current status: Appointed Representative Effective Date: 14/01/2005 Tied Agent:
                          Undertakes Insurance Mediation: Y Registered under Money Laundering Regulations:
                          Address: 15 Great College Street
                          London
                          SW1P 3RX
                          Phone:
                          Fax:
                          Email:
                          Website:
                          44 020 7227 7518
                          44 020 7976 0243
                          andrewcurrie@pcfg.co.uk

                          Notices:
                          Other information:



                          2005 registered but the FOS was not set up until 2005 also so I do not see a problem there.


                          PF
                          Last edited by pompeyfaith; 12th August 2010, 18:32:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
                          If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PPI Claim rejected

                            Originally posted by pompeyfaith View Post
                            Ditto Lugger I owe my bank 6 grand but they also owe me 25 grand in missold ppi so I have them on this and UTTCR 1999 because they cant chase me because there is a "vis a "vis"

                            Not paid them anything as that is my safeguard

                            PF
                            ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------


                            Still worth a try give them a ring, they are investigating my complaint which goes back to March 1999.

                            PF
                            ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                            Have you checked this on the FSA register ?

                            PF
                            Yep, they're on the register as effective registration with FSA on 14/1/2005

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PPI Claim rejected

                              Name & Registered Office:
                              FINANCIAL OMBUDSMAN SERVICE LIMITED
                              SOUTH QUAY PLAZA
                              183 MARSH WALL
                              LONDON
                              E14 9SR
                              Company No. 03725015



                              Status: Active
                              Date of Incorporation: 26/02/1999

                              Country of Origin: United Kingdom
                              Company Type: PRI/LTD BY GUAR/NSC (Private, limited by guarantee, no share capital)
                              Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
                              9305 - Other service activities
                              Accounting Reference Date: 31/03
                              Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/03/2010 (FULL)
                              Next Accounts Due: 31/12/2011
                              Last Return Made Up To: 26/02/2010
                              Next Return Due: 26/03/2011
                              Previous Names: Date of change Previous Name 06/12/1999 FINANCIAL SERVICES OMBUDSMAN SCHEME LIMITED UK Establishment Details There are no UK Establishments associated with this company. Oversea Company Info There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.


                              Actually they were incorporated in 1999 so not a problem
                              ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                              This is strange says 10/07/1986 here do you have a letterhead at all with there company number on ?

                              COLLEGE CREDIT LIMITED
                              39 VICTORIA STREET
                              LONDON
                              SW1H 0EU
                              Company No. 02036087



                              Status: Active
                              Date of Incorporation: 10/07/1986

                              Country of Origin: United Kingdom
                              Company Type: Private Limited Company
                              Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
                              9999 - Dormant Company
                              Accounting Reference Date: 31/03
                              Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/03/2009 (DORMANT)
                              Next Accounts Due: 31/12/2010
                              Last Return Made Up To: 31/01/2010
                              Next Return Due: 27/02/2011
                              Last Members List: 31/01/2010
                              Previous Names: Date of change Previous Name 06/01/1999 WESTMINSTER WASTE MANAGEMENT LIMITED 24/03/1995 MDFC CREDIT CORPORATION LIMITED 01/07/1996 AMC CREDIT CORPORATION LIMITED UK Establishment Details There are no UK Establishments associated with this company. Oversea Company Info There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.
                              Last edited by pompeyfaith; 12th August 2010, 18:42:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
                              If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

                              sigpic

                              Comment

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