Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Does anybody know what A deed of assignment looks like...?

[Bill-K]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

...it is difficult for a debtor to determine from what they receive if this is absolute or equitable. I'm presuming assignment notices can be sent out in both cases ?

Yes, this is something we touched on earlier, Jax. The Letter or Notice of Assignment does not have to state whether it is an equitable or absolute assignment, it seems. However, the DEED of Assignment will state this - BUT this is essentially a private legal document recording the assignment, and we don't appear to have an automatic right to see a copy of it. We could perhaps send a DSAR and demand that a copy of it is sent, and that would cost £10. I did mention the possibility that we might have a right to a copy in response to a CCA s.77-79 request, because this is a significant alteration to our Credit Agreement in that the Creditor had changed. I think the simplest thing to do in the first instance, though, would be to write to the DCA and the OC and ask them to clarify whether the assignment was equitable or absolute.

One might wonder how much of the interest charged on a credit card is to cover for bad debts, fraudulent card use and the guarantee against faulty or undelivered goods bought on the card ? Obviously the cost has to be covered somewhere, but is there a choice ?

That has been a good old chestnut since the penalty charge reclaims. Basically, it seems unfair that those who conduct their accounts impeccably and never have any fraudulent transactions or claims for refunds are subsidising those who do have problems. The cost of this has to come from somewhere. Some of it was covered by the huge penalty charges the banks used to make, but not so much now. In a way, I guess the banking/borrowing public made their choice by fighting the penalty charges.

Does anybody know what A deed of assignment looks like...?

Now you mention it, no. I've seen loads of DSAR data packages, and I can't say I've ever seen a Deed of Assignment in there.

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

The Deed of Assignment I was sent by the DCA was a front page saying ..Agreement between Sainsbury's Bank and Hillesden Securities' and then a back page with signatures on it. In other words, meaningless, and deliberately so. Why are they so coy ? I guess you could 'assume' if they don't produce it, they haven't got it ?

The DCA in my case promised it could be produced in Court though...which is like saying, don't you dare try it on mate (which could be bluff)..In elaborating on this they cited confidentiality of the other names on the long list of accounts they had bought by bulk purchase...but the reality is I wanted to see the terms of the assignment...I got neither. What is a DSAR by the way ?

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I was thinking about mentioning to the family friend about requesting for a "Deed of assignment" from Cabot, that shouldn't hurt should it?

As I do believe he not long sent a request for a SAR, but that was to the OC, maybe one to Cabot now then?
See what happens, maybe a SAR when there is a debt within DCA should make sure it's mentioned as well on request?

Jax, Subject Access Request (SAR) and Data Subject Access Request (DSAR) from what I know of, maybe our Bill can clarify on this DSAR?

[Bill-K]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

What they sent was an incomplete copy, then - but their explanation makes sense, TBH. Of course, I forget that these debts are often sold as a whole 'package' of debts, and so there may be a whole list of them covered by the one Deed of Assignment. To show the list of all the other debts would be a breach of the DPA - BUT - I don't see why they couldn't have shown you the terms of the Deed. This explains why we rarely - if ever - get to see a Deed of Assignment.

Sorry Jax - DSAR = Data Subject Access Request.

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

One might wonder how much of the interest charged on a credit card is to cover for bad debts, fraudulent card use and the guarantee against faulty or undelivered goods bought on the card ? Obviously the cost has to be covered somewhere, but is there a choice ?

Yep, pay it off in full each month!

[Bill-K]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Replying to Di's post - I think Jax's experience is why we never get to see a copy of a Deed of Assignment in our DSAR data, so I'm not sure that you'll get one from Cabot - with or without a DSAR. I'm not sure that we really need to see the terms, anyway - we just want written confirmation of what type of assignment it is.

Pedantics. Some peeps use the abbrevo SAR, and others use DSAR - it's the same thing. I prefer DSAR myself because under the DPA we are each individually known as "Data Subjects," not just "Subjects." When a Data Subject "Requests Access" to their data, then we have a "DSAR."

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

labman...I'd overlooked that option ! lol

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

What they sent was an incomplete copy, then - but their explanation makes sense, TBH. Of course, I forget that these debts are often sold as a whole 'package' of debts, and so there may be a whole list of them covered by the one Deed of Assignment. To show the list of all the other debts would be a breach of the DPA - BUT - I don't see why they couldn't have shown you the terms of the Deed. This explains why we rarely - if ever - get to see a Deed of Assignment.

Sorry Jax - DSAR = Data Subject Access Request.

The truth is they either can't be bothered or they want to hide something. If it came to Court you can guarantee 100% the deed would be found, filtered and presented to prove absolute ownership..

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

All you need is a valid NoA. The Deed will only ever be disclosed through court proceedings. As said above, they can't be revealed in a SAR due to breach of DPA as yours will be just one out of a batch of debts listed.

[Bill-K]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

All you need is a valid NoA.

Is a Letter of Assignment the same as a NoA ? And what actually validates it ? Must it state the type of assignment ?

Sorry - questions, questions....it's the type of assignment that we need to find out.

Guy Anker wrote this about Packaged Accounts in MSE:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/new...t-compensation

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Cheers Bill,

That's how I made a start with mine since reading Guy Ankers information on this, but did not know that this was something that could be pursued until then.
If mine end up successful, as my account is now clear with Lloyds, then the refund should come back to me.

So it will be interesting to know with my friend of what the outcome, if successful via FOS on this product, whilst is his with DCA.

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Is a Letter of Assignment the same as a NoA ? And what actually validates it ? Must it state the type of assignment ?

Sorry - questions, questions....it's the type of assignment that we need to find out.

An Equitable Assignment does not need to be put in writing, as it is only asking a third party to collect the equity in the debt (the money owing) - henceit being Equitable. An Absolute Assignment does have to be in writing in accordance with LoPA 1925.

Have a read of this:

http://news.rkllp.co.uk/?p=391

[Bill-K]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Thanks for the link. I didn't realise that Equitable Assignment was effectively the 'default' state, and didn't require a Deed to be drawn up. It's obvious, really, innit ? But it wasn't to me !!! No need for a Deed, as the assignee is simply acting as an agent for the assignor. So - if there IS a Deed of Assignment, then we know (99 % ?) that the assignment is therefore absolute.

Can we take it that the LoPA 1925 can be applied to all debts, and not just mortgages ? Soz - putting you on the spot there, mate !!!

What still annoys me is something Labman pointed out to me a while back in relation to my earlier 'Prove It' letters. That is that the OC does NOT have an obligation to inform the borrower that the debt has been assigned. This, to me, is unsafe because it means that any Tom, Dick or Harry can tell us they have been assigned our debt, and con us out of our money before disappearing under a stone. Why should we believe them, when the OC has told us nothing ? I'm sure I'm not alone in having had more than one DCA chasing me for the same debt at what appears to be the same time. There are many of us who would be utterly confused and intimidated by this. I believe a letter from the OC should be mandatory, when we are being told to be constantly on our guard against fraud.

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

You might wonder if some OC's or DCA's would send a NoA anyway, just to make the debtor think it is a legal one..if we assumed that all equitable assigments are not notified and all legal assignments are, then you could see how we could be hoodwinked.

I agree with Bill-K in that all assigments should be notified, and the type of assignment should be made totally clear. Whatsmore, all assigment notices should be recorded delivery and not deemed served unless signed for at the delivery address. This would clarify for the debtor who has rights to pursue the debt, and what those rights are. This seems to me to be an obvious thing that should have been implemented.