Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

[springwater]

Hi all,

I have a situation with welcome finance (it would appear i'm not alone!).

I took out a £16k loan with them around 2008 (will confirm exact amounts and dates asap), secured against my property.

The first year or 2 went ok, payments on time etc, then I lost my job and struggled, and the hounding phone calls and visits to the door began.


I still owe them around £4k and, after reading the forum, have now asked them for a statement of my account as i'm sure they will have added on charges for phone calls and visits etc. they claimed they didnt sell me ppi as i was sold the product by 'an agent', im digging out my paperwork.

what I am wondering is:

• are welcome finance going bust?
• is there anything i can do regarding this loan due to it being secured? i.e, make smaller payments?

i'd also like to know if anyone else was sold their welcome finance loan by 'an agent' and whether anyone else has successfully claimed ppi back?

thanks in advance!

[dogtired]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will advise.
Yes they are, in all but name, bankrupt.
Try to find out if you have PPI added.
SAR them if you cannot find this, good templates on site for this, will cost you £10 but SHOULD have all details of your account.
The FSCS are dealing with post 2005 and Welcome pre that, dont hold your breath it will take a while!
Good Luck

[Shadowcat]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

Hi Springwater

I second dogtired - SDAR request is essential, don't hold your breath for all the info but that's a black mark against them not you.

Have you a signed copy of the agreement?

If and when they send you info they may send a copy of your Title Deed, you may well get this as one thing you can guarantee with Welcome is that they will send anything that could be constituted as a 'frightener'. If you do not get a copy sent, phone Land Registry in the first instance and see if you can save yourself the £12 charge for a copy and ask them a direct question - are Welcome Finance entered as a charge on your Deeds. I bet not and you probably have another company, we have Progressive Loans. Immediately there is an issue with security for Welcome - they are not on the Deeds.


Next, you need to claim back PPI - this is being dealt with at their head office in Nottingham, PPI template letter on site. Please add in bold at the foot of the letter:

- that it is your intention to claim back unfair/unreasonable charges over the course of this loan and that you have submitted an SDAR request in order to be able to calculate this.


- that you wish to deal in writing only





Then a second letter headed OFFICAL COMPLAINT and simply state your complaint as:

- you consider your treatment regarding hardship has not been fair and contravenes Banking Code of Business (BCOBS) which states:
"BCOBS 5.1.4 01/11/2009 Principle 6 requires a firm to pay due regard to the interests of its customers and to treat them fairly. In particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty."


Copy all letters to the OFT - you can do this by email and attach letters if you want, I also copy my local Trading Standards in on letters to Welcome, it never hurts to publicise your issues.

Keep a file specifically with all correspondence to and from so that you have a good solid paper trail in date order. Do not deal with them on the phone as they seem to have no hesitation in fabricating what you've said. I am going to swear on an affadavit that their transcripts they have sent are untrue in parts, this is for my own records.




I doubt any of that will stop them phoning/harrassing, you can report the calls to the local police and get an incident number for harrassment if you want to be able to add that to your records, I have but Welcome ride roughshod over rules and I have my own theories as to what they are doing and why they are behaving like this. I take it it's a local branch carrying out the harrassment and not the head office?

The fact that these people still have a licence baffles me completely.

Anything that's not clear in the above, just ask but once you get the ball rolling and start accruing a file of your own you have evidence that you are dissatisfied with several aspects of their service.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
...and when you've done all this you can wait a few days and send a 'Telephone harrassment letter', if you need a template for that I'll post mine on (details removed) which you can also copy to OFCOM. OFCOM will just reply blah blah and maybe say you should report it to the police but again, it's an addition to your file.

[springwater]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

thanks both, whats an SDAR request?

[dogtired]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

Subject Access Request not sure about the "D"
It is a request to the lender for ALL information on your account.
Welcome sent me ones for an old loan and its been going on for nearly four years now.
We never did get anything for the loan number they say is "active"
its been to an collection solicitors (Not a debt collector) who soon sent it back again to Welcome when I again requested the cheaper CCA request (Consumer Credit Act) that will cost you a £1 but I was advised (by the lovely people on this site) to send postal orders and send anything by recorded delivery.
Now been advised to contact the underwriters for the pre 2004 loan as PPI was also added to this
Welcome are know to be slippery customers and I have learned a lot from this site on how to deal with them.
Posted elsewhere on several threads and there is a lot of knowledge out there and you are not alone.

[Shadowcat]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

It stands for Subject Data Access Request and constitutes everything, all data, relating to your account that has accrued with a company over the years and should be an accurate historical account of the events of that period.

It is all data, down to telephone calls that are recorded and should be put into transcript form, it should also include all contracts, applications, insurances, underwriting details and all communications with third parties regarding you, in fact absolutely everything to do with you in the time you have been dealing with a company.

This information is your right to ask for and receive. All copies must be true and unaltered. Nothing should be hidden or blacked-out, some companies claim information is sensitive and should not be allowed to be seen, this is, in the case of subprime, more often than not a ruse to avoid letting you see things that maybe should not have taken place. I'm not saying this will happen in your case, just be aware it does happen.

It is enforceable by the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and gives you the right to see all information held about you. It was put into place to enable total transparency, which is particularly useful with subprime lending as they deal a lot in smoke and mirrors.

[labman]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

Dear Sir/Madam

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Please provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return or destroy my cheque.

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended

I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

As detailed above, I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you visited me at and at which your bailiffs relieved me of the sum of £***.

Yours faithfully


(Your Name)

[Shadowcat]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

Cheers Labman, was just going to post mine.

[seduraed]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

Welcome finance is part of Cattles plc and Progessive finance is the name Welcome used to use until about 3 years ago. They then had their name officially changed from Progressive Finance ltd to Welcome Financial Services limited. Both parts of the company are vastly in debt and as near bankrupt as makes no difference. IIRC Welcome owe £700m and Cattles £1.3 billion . I know that Cattles defaulted on its eurobonds which brought on the crisis but there had been some very strange goings on before that . Several directors were put on garden leave and then resigned, I believe inspector knacker has taken an interest in some the previous activities.

[miliitant]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

welcomes Achilles heal is its constant commission payments.
they even had a company within a company called

WELCOME ELITE BROKERS

when you approached welcome for a secured or any loan, they would pay themself a commission for setting up the loan, and pass the money through welcome elite brokers with out telling you.
that would then be front loaded onto the agreement where by you pay through the nose in the interest rate.

the case law that supports this is wilson v hurstanger

prove this and the agreement is history

the only problem with this would be the need to get hold of the underwriting sheet. normally court action would be in progress to get this via a part 18 request but

WELCOME HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO RELEASE IT IN ERROR WHEN A DSAR HAS BEEN SUBMITTED

[madsand]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

i used a broker for my loan they were 1st stop finance and after receiving my sar details have found out they earned £1700 commission on top of the broker fee of £1000,welcome have told me recently that wilson and hurstanger does not apply "as only relationships between broker and lenders,which are properly characterised as fiduciary agencies,are affected by the decision in hurstanger"

can anybody point me in the right direction for getting an audit done on my agreement?

[Ruby]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

I am in exact same boat as Springwater. Surely there must be some issue of legality with regard to hidden commissions not being disclosed to lender?

[Shadowcat]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

I write weekly for an underwriting sheet, they have replied this week saying they have sent everything for the SDAR request. I will add the words 'no you haven't' to Monday's letter.

They're broke, had it and washed up but I will pick their carcass for a long time for what they did.

[dogtired]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

"Welcome" have sent us the "annual" statement.
Two things stand out, they have deducted the £1 fee that I sent to Incasso as a CCA request.
The other is something they are calling "principal credit adj" This is £200!
I agree that they are up a creek without even a boat.
Just had a call from the adviser at CAB. the specialist team have said that this "account" is irretrievable unenforceable!
Hes says just wait, they COULD try and take it to court but he doubts it as they are , as you say broke.
Its strange that the £200 matches the sum the FOS said they had to pay us when we tried to get the ppi, we rejected that as they wanted us to sign a new agreement.

DT

[Ruby]

Re: Welcome Finance- secured loan issues

Oh boy, this company is a real piece of art! I wish I never heard of them in 2008. Going back to the hidden commission issue - a broker is supposed to be an agent to find you the best deals on the market and supposedly 'independant' . If they are only tied to certain companies they MUST inform the lender of that fact beforehand. If they are being paid hidden commissions by a company then they are not truely independant and needless to say will not bend over backwards to find you the best deal. They will be most interested in lining their own pockets instead. SURELY that is breaching several guidelines/laws and cause for repercussion? I worked for a major high street bank for a few years and we had to tell our customers that we could only advise them on products provided from x and y company. This was to make our customers aware that the advice we provided was not completely impartial -