CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

**WendyB** · 4th June 2009, 08:21:AM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi

Are you in a financial position to pay this debt, by payment arrangement or monthly instalments or whatever? Or do you need the CCA to be unenforceable because you can't afford to pay? Even if the CCA is unenforceable, doesn't mean the debt will go away, it will still be there and recorded against you and you will still get DCAs popping up from time to time and giving you grief.

**debtisbad** · 4th June 2009, 08:26:AM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

well, I was paying 25 pounds a month and offered to settle at 10% and they declined. So I started to pay 1 pound a month and send them some income details.

**debtisbad** · 4th June 2009, 09:45:AM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

OK, I have been thinking-here is the full story.

I had an Egg card. Also 2 loans with Egg and an Abbey National credit card. All payments were up to date and on time. I was doing Contract work abroad and paid 5000 pounds off my Egg card. They then called me up and said they were stopping the card account becuase I was working abroad for more than 6 months at a time (although previously they sold me PPI insurance by telephone when I was in Belgium and they were quite happy to take my money without question). I then had a two month gap in work and made reduced payments and the deluge of letters arrived. I have always kept up regular payments to all 5 creditors, albeit at reduced rates.

When I moved to Taiwan I tried to negotiate settlements but without luck. For example, CapQuest asked me for lots of info, such as work permits, etc, and always claimed not to receive them, even when I sent them registered post. So when the first year Contract expired, I put them all on 1 pound a month. I am also pursuing Egg and Abbey for unfair bank charges and Egg card for PPI insurance. They even sent me a recording of the sale and I even told them, I was working abroad, but they still sold me the polciy.

So. it's not that I haven't tried settlements, they just would not negotiate, any of them, even though I live in Taiwan.

As it happenes, last time i checked I owed around 17000 pounds, but Capquest had added interest/charges since then. Abbey added about 500 pounds. Egg is wary of me because I had their CCJ against me set aside, so their charges are about the same.

I can go down two routes. One is to claim back the credit card charges and PPI and demonstrate unenforceable CCAs. For example the PPI charges on the egg card were 75 pence per 100 pounds per month. Well I had 5000 pounds for 6 months, which is already around 200 pounds for that period alone and there will also be default charges to claim i.e. they should be no more than 12pence each. The balance on the card is around 550 pounds, so it would be easier for them to settle with me.

However, I recently cashed in a long term investment and have 10500 pounds, not that i want to use it all in settlement.

I would be prepared to waive PPI and credit card charge claims as part of the negotiation process, as well as have the threat hanging over them of unenforceable CCAs, plus the fact that I have no plans to return to the UK, if they would only be reasonable in the settlements that they would accept.

As I understand it, most debts are sold to DCAs for 10 to 30% of the original value. in the case of CapQuest, probably closer to 10%, since the CCJ had already been set aside.

So 10% of 17000 pounds is 1700 pounds, 20% is 3400 pounds and 30% is 5100 pounds.

As I failed to agree settlements, that is why i was looking at the unenforceable CCA route as an option.

Hope this explains the situation but fully understand your suggestion of paying them off.

**WendyB** · 4th June 2009, 10:32:AM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Can you give a breakdown of how much you owe to each one? And who were capquest acting on behalf of? Once we've got a clearer picture it will be easier to advise, and might then be better to start separate threads fro each one in the relevant forum. What does anyone else think on this?

**WendyB** · 4th June 2009, 10:58:AM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Just another thought, are you planning to come back to the UK at some point, if ever, and can you see yourself ever needing/wanting credit in UK? Because no doubt with all this going on your credit file will be shot to pieces, late markers, defaults etc. Which will stay there until satisfied or 6 years. So if you will be needing credit here at any pint, it will be worth getting it all sorted out.

PPI, bank charges, CCA, and CC charges should be tackled separately as different criteria apply to each one, and some are easier to get back than others. Credit card charges are the most straightforward, IMO, but if you go the CCA route then you can't get the charges back. You need to weigh up how much the charges are in relation to the total debt before you decide which way to play it.
Bank charges are covered by the OFTcase and waiver for the forseeable future.
PPI can be straightforward, and if you have evidence of a phone call which clearly made you an unsuitable candidate then that might be fairly easy too. But again I'm not sure if you could get the PPI back if you went down the CCA route.

**debtisbad** · 4th June 2009, 11:16:AM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

I will do this a little later. Thanks for the fast reply.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Hi Wendy

No plans at all for the UK, long term employment here, so I am not worried about my credit file. I have learned to live with cash, within my means! I kept a Smile account open for the conveneicne of making payments to my creditors and they also give me a 1000 pound limit Visa card which is used little and always paid off. I am 500 pounds in credit with them.

Al

**debtisbad** · 4th June 2009, 15:05:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Wendy

I break it down as follows:

All know that I am abroad and have been for several years, but when I get the post forwarded from my UK postal address, there are the usual letters threatening CCJs, etc.

All have been offered F+F settlements and all refuse.

The options I have to consider are 5 choices:

Firstly, "disappear", since I am abroad. it is not in my nature to do this.

Secondly, go bankrupt from abroad. this takes 1 year to complete and there are some fees involved. Again, not really a choice for me.

Thirdly, drip feed payments, but this does not really help the longer term picture.

Fourthly, offer F+F settlements, but they all refuse.

Finally, CCA none enforcements, the first of which I have, namely the CapQuest Egg scenario set out earlier in my thread.

The creditors are 4 in number:

1) CapQuest who purchased an Egg loan, see my earlier thread for a copy of the CCA recently received. They know I am abroad and yet recent post from the UK shows they are still threatening CCJs. Egg got a CCJ on this account previosuly and I had it set aside when I got my post from the UK, so I think Egg have ripped off CapQuest a bit on this one!

CCA received, waiting for DPA stuff. CCA T+C missiing, no cooling off period and no statement of total interest to be charged.

Original debt with Egg was 2500, increased to 3600 when sold to CapQuest, now CapQuest claim it is 4889.33 as of 27/04/09. This is the only debt that is "growing" out of the 4 creditors.

2) Egg credit card. 584.79 outstanding as of today. This appears to be frozen and reduces as and when I make payments. PPI refund applied for and recorded voicemail they sent me shows clearly a girl selling the PPI to my when i declared that I was abroad, so I have applied for a refund, letter sent 2 days ago.

I have requested listing of charges over 12 pounds and await their reply. Equally, awaiting CCA and DPA info.

3) Egg loan. Last said to be 2775.98 as of 4th August 2008. never heard back since. CCA and DPA applied for, nit received yet.

4) Lowells (under 3 or 4 differnt names) bought a credit card debt from MBNA, who in turn started out as an Abbey National credit card. Credit limit was 10000, I was just under that when I defaulted. currently they claim it to be 10522.89 as of 24/04/.2009. it also appears frozen.

There was some discrepancy, as I was paying MBNA for several months before I received post from the UK saying the debt had been sold to Lowells. When i quried the amount Lowells refused to answer. They also truned down a F+F offer,, even though they had made one of their earlier, at a time when i had no funds to settle.

They canceled all previous offers and rejected my claim, now claiming the full amount.

I received the DPA info recently, which shows they did receive payments from MBNA, so that problem is solved.

However, they are trying to get a true copy of the original from Abbey and are having difficulty in obtaining it. They have far exceeded the 12 days, etc and acknowledged this by letter to me.

I received a breakdown of charges on the card, provided by Abbey and laast week sent a letter claiming the full refund of the charges.

If you add this all up, assuming that the CapQuest/Egg laon was 2500, then the total comes to 16383.66. if you go with CapQuest's alleged 4889.33, the total becomes 18772.99

They all seem to be in a state of confusion:

I live abroad
I had a CCJ set aside
I offered settlements, they all rejected.
I reduced the monthly payments to 1 pound.

By not cooperating with me, they have all lost out. Every letter seems to think I ammin the UK and they talk about doorstep collectors, etc. I don't even live there!

hope this all helps, please ask if you need further info!

Regards

Al

**enaid** · 4th June 2009, 15:30:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

2) Egg credit card. 584.79 outstanding as of today. This appears to be frozen and reduces as and when I make payments. PPI refund applied for and recorded voicemail they sent me shows clearly a girl selling the PPI to my when i declared that I was abroad, so I have applied for a refund, letter sent 2 days ago.

I have requested listing of charges over 12 pounds and await their reply. Equally, awaiting CCA and DPA info.

You can claim ALL charges back not just those exceeding £12.

Did you do a SAR (subject access request)? This would have then given you all your statements plus info they have on you and should include the phone call re the PPI.

**debtisbad** · 4th June 2009, 15:49:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Enaid

Yes, I did the full SAR. Last post I received from the UK about 6 weeks after asking for the SARS simply contained one lette that said they were investigating my complaint about the loan that they sold to CapQuest and they would try to reply within 8 weeks.

However, there was no mention of the SARS and no copies of the CCAs.

Since then, they sent me an email with a sound file, which recorded a conversation between me and a sales girl. It was protected by a password that had to collect off their secure website. It was when they sold me PPI for the Egg card.

it was quite funny, as the girl spoke so quickly it was difficult to hear and she called me on mobile. i explained that I worked abroad and was in Belgium.

She never said anything about the PPI not covering working abroad, nor did she ask me any Egg security questions to identify me.

she blurted out at high speed several benefits, such as it would protect me for unemployment sickness and accident for up to 12 months and it was great value at 74pence per 100 pounds.

She said she would send me an agreement to look at in the post-obviously this would take months to reach me, since i worked on a cruise ship, and then said on the message, right i'll start the cover from today.

It was all over so quickly.

I can send the email and password to you if you want to listen and have a laugh.

Other than that i heard nothing from them.

By the way, Wendy is doing a great job also of looking into my case, so thanks to both of you.

Regards

Al

**enaid** · 4th June 2009, 16:16:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

No problem thats why we are here.

If you sent them £10 and requested a SAR then they have not complied at all to your request.
The PPI was mis sold as you are not residing in the uk, you must reclaim all that back plus interest.
All your charges on the card should be put on a spreadsheet and interest calculated also.
Please have a read about claiming back your CC charges Legal Beagles
All the info and time scales is on there for you, hope this helps
Enaid x

**Amethyst** · 4th June 2009, 16:25:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

It doesnt have total charge for credit, or total credit (though it does have 'principal loan) - total charge for credit should be shown as £2011.16 and it clearly is not, and yes, the terms are missing, so would agree with your view that it would be unenforceable in court.

This is the loan that went to a CCJ which you got set aside. on what basis did you get it set aside ? the lack of notification/paperwork received i assume. If its been completely removed then i agree with you, use the unenforceability to negoitate a 'goodwill' settlement of 10%-20% of the actual debt owed and get capquest off your back. Its a damn good negotiation tool.

You sound like you are well on top of things and have done the reading so know what to expect. You also don't sound like you want to go down the declaration of unenforceability route, simply use the law to get these debts settled at a sensible amount and move on. So good for you xxx

Wends and Nelly seem to have things in hand re your PPI and charges so really just saying hi and welcome to the site

**WendyB** · 4th June 2009, 16:39:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Enaid is probably a better bet than me on the PPI - I must be the only person in the world who failed in my bid to get PPI refunded lol.

Credit card charges - claim the lot, not just the ones over £12. As Enaid says, you should have copies of eveything under SAR so put all the charges on a spreadsheet and request them back. Be aware that any refund they make will probably get put back onto your account, so if it doesn't cover the whole balance you won't actually get any money in your pocket, unless there's a surplus, but at least it will reduce your debt to them.

**debtisbad** · 4th June 2009, 22:18:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Wendy

I have already used a similar spreadsheet when I got the full breakdown of charges from Abbey credit card and put in a claim for everything, including the full 12 pounds, plus interest using a similar spreadsheet on moneyexpertmartin.com, so am fully familiar with the procedure thanks.

Yes, Egg were given a full SARS request. I will request my next batch of post from the UK shortly and will see if it's all in there. All my post is collected at a friend's house, so I don't like to bother him too often. If it is in there, then I will claim the full credit card charges. if they offest them, that's OK, the balance will be quite small remaining and i can settle that one also. PPI I sent a letter a few days ago claiming a full refund. I suspect they will go down the frustration route, but I shall persist using the template letters right up to the Banking Ombudsman if necessary. I assume that will also get paid off the card. Iif there is a refund that takes it higher than the remaining credit card balance, then they may set aside an amount towards the Egg loan, perhaps?

I will request the post from my friend today, but it takes a little while to get here.

Thanks again

Al
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Hi Enaid

I have already used a similar spreadsheet when I got the full breakdown of charges from Abbey credit card and put in a claim for everything, including the full 12 pounds, plus interest using a similar spreadsheet on moneyexpertmartin.com, so am fully familiar with the procedure thanks.

Yes, Egg were given a full SARS request. I will request my next batch of post from the UK shortly and will see if it's all in there. All my post is collected at a friend's house, so I don't like to bother him too often. If it is in there, then I will claim the full credit card charges. if they offest them, that's OK, the balance will be quite small remaining and i can settle that one also. PPI I sent a letter a few days ago claiming a full refund. I suspect they will go down the frustration route, but I shall persist using the template letters right up to the Banking Ombudsman if necessary. I assume that will also get paid off the card. Iif there is a refund that takes it higher than the remaining credit card balance, then they may set aside an amount towards the Egg loan, perhaps?

I will request the post from my friend today, but it takes a little while to get here.

Thanks again

Al

**debtisbad** · 4th June 2009, 22:52:PM

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Wolf

The CCJ was set aside like this: in all correspondence to Egg, I had always told them I was working/living abroad. Since I was working on a cruise ship, there was no permanent address abroad, which meant that all post went to my UK postal address-a friend does this for me.

After quite some time, I got the latest batch of post and in there were the CCJ summons and, of course, a default order against me from the northampton bulk court. I called the solicitor that worked for Egg, Bryan Carter, which is an in-house "solicitor" working for one of their collections agencies. When you call, it answers as "Bryan carter" solicitors but was obviously a call centre judging by the noise in the background. I gave the reference number and pointed out that I was abroad, Egg knew that had deliberately sneaked the claim through when i was away. I said that I would apply to have the CCJ removed and I told him the county court would take a pretty dim view of their tactic. I explained to him that I retained all correspondence with Egg and would notify the court accordingly.

I sent the court a N244 Application notice to request that the claim be set aside. I got the Ship's Purser (Cheif Accountant) to verify all of the paperwork and stamp it with the official ship's stamp. This included proof that I worked on the ship, copy correspondence to Egg and their various agencies explaining this. The claim I put in asked for the CCJ be set aside for 3 reasons. Firstly, I was working abroad and did not live in the UK at the time the summons was made. Secondly, the amount that they were claiming from me did not take into account payments made to Egg and was therefore inaccurate. Thirdly, Egg and their agencies had been adding various costs, fees and charges to the outstanding debt, which bear no resemblance to the administrative costs of notifying me.

Unfortunately, I wrote out the wrong amount on my cheque and the whole lot was returned to me asking for 5 pounds more. Again, this took some time as I only received the post occasionally, but eventually i was able to send the correct cheque off to the court.

The Court replied, returning my papers and uncashed cheque saying Your application is incomplete. Judgement was set aside by the claimant on 11th May 2006.

Hahaha, easy!

Recently, CapQuest did not even know about the CCJ-nice one, Egg, you sold a dud loan to Capuest! in a recent email of summary to me, CapQuest quote as follows:

"The Default notice was issued 08.04.05 followed by a Termination notice 08.05.05. Your account was sent to 2 Agencies, one of whom took legal proceedings and Judgment was entered 10.01.06. This was set aside 10.05.06 presumably as you were still working abroad at this time and not in the UK.

All permissions on the account were removed including making payments once the account defaulted. This was the reason the account was stopped and not because you were working abroad."

OK, now on to CapQuest. Firstly, I can use the template letter that you have on this site for unenforceable CCAS.

Three questions:

1) Should I specifiy the reasons for the unenforceability or just use the generic letter? looking at various blogs, some say don't give the reasons up front, but this case is so clear cut, there may an argument to get it right out in the open immediately.

2) Should I write or email this to them? They tend to email mostly but also send threat letters to my UK address as well.

3) If I offer at 10-20%, which figure should I use? 2500 pounds from when i defaulted at Egg. 3600 pounds when the debt was sold to CapQuest? Or 4889.33 pounds that CapQuest claim in their last letter to me? I mean, i could argue that due to the unenforceability of the CCA, all interest and fees should be removed. Previously, i offered Capquest F+F 10% of 2500 i.e. 250 pounds which was rejected. i then made a further offer of 375 pounds, early 2008, which was rejected. So what figure do you suggest I offer and what reasoning do i give them? I could threaten with unenforcement and offer as "goodwill" with 14 days to accept, or something like that.

Thanks for your help!

CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

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