welcome finance help needed

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

im on my msn now

[Turboman]

Re: welcome finance help needed

Poochie

I do apologize so much Poochie-I've let you down--got caught up in some personal stuff last night---will not be around till Thursday---I have PM'd Bill to look in so if you need him-leave a post after this one

Turbs

[Bill-K]

Re: welcome finance help needed

Hi Poochie. Turbo has asked me to look in here. It looks like the thing we need most urgently now is more time. I see Turbo has done his very best to try and get to grips with this whole claim (and he does that brilliantly, may I say). Basically, I think what we need to do is get back to the very roots, and then work out as precisely as possible what you should ACTUALLY be entitled to under the FSA/FOS rules and the law. In many cases, this is a lot more than the lenders offer people. In effect, we need to be able to evaluate their offer(s) properly - and with sufficient information as to how those offers have been calculated. This will take further time and effort.

I would suggest that you respond to the latest offer immediately. Acknowledge the offer, and explain that you are taking it very seriously and giving it the respect it deserves by receiving independent advice on it. Explain that this will take more time than you were given, and that you WILL be back in contact when you are in a position to properly and fairly evaluate it. Politely insist that they acknowledge this by return of post - and send by one of the recorded delivery postage methods.

That should then give us further time to assemble some facts and figures. HTH.

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

thanx bill...but as expected, welcome wrote to us today sayin they had no response to offer so givin us another 7 days to reply or they withdraw the offer.

But I had already posted letter to them yesterday by recorded delivery, because I knew even tho lady on phone said they would give us more time, I knew they wouldnt so I had to reply as soon as possible in writin and I always post anythin to them by recorded delivery.

I told them in letter that we are declining the offer and are seeking independant advice on this matter because it has gone on too long and we need to reach amicable agreement so we can finish paying our loan off.

In the letter I mentioned the amounts outstanding have changed considerably each time I spoke to people on phone and that I suspect they have been adding interest onto our loan in all the time our loan has been in dispute and we dont think that is fair because they stopped taking payments almost a year ago and I have tried resettin direct debit but bank needs mandate from company, and wen I worte letters I got no response.... I also tried makin debit card payments and the man or lady said it was differenet department and they would put me through to relevant department but wen they done so...I got cut off......
They dont seem to want payments form us for some reason and ignore all attempts to re-start the payments and gave no reason as to why they stopped the payments...even the bank doesnt know.

I said if they wish to make another offer within 21 days then we will consider it but we are fed up with the battle to clear this mess up and therfor we think we need independant help or legal help to hopefully end this dispute and get back to payin our loan and clearin our debt.

It was a rushed letter coz I was worried they would withdraw the offer and then we would be accused of being awkward or whatever with them..... so at least by writing to them it shows we did consider offer but we still are not happy considering we are disputing mis-sold ppi on 3 loans with them.

Hopefully I did right and didnt make things worse but we really are fed up with this and just want decent offer and to finish paying them off but they never seem in rush to take our payments.

We are in a trust deed and our trust deed advisor has contacted welcome as well and he said they will be sending mandate form out but that was 5 mths ago and they still havent done it...... he doesnt get any response from them now by e-mail, phone or fax so he told us not to worry because by him being involved, if welcome dispute our payments not being made then he has documentation of his correspondence with them.

[seduraed]

Re: welcome finance help needed

It dont they are deliberately witholding info its probabally just the usual Welcome mess. I know the supplier of medicare changed in the last last three years as did the terms and conditions about being swelf employed. I'm not an expert on scottish law. Items that invalidate and agreement may be different . Most of scots law is so I would getsome expet advice from a citizens advice if I wee you . Ad hoc is latin and means at the table. These are charges added when Welcome have triedto contact you and not been able o theyused to charge per phone call not answered until the regulators told the it was illegal . Now they can only charge if they phone you for you to make an agreed action usally a payment and refuse .
Capitalisation charges used to be the amount deduted from capital on each payment and it was this amount that was used to calculate the monthlly interest .

Complain to head office in writing complain ot the branch manager in writing and cc everything to the regulator.

[Bill-K]

Re: welcome finance help needed

I agree with Seduraed, in that they are either deliberately witholding info or they are completely and genuinely incompetent. Either way, there is no excuse for witholding info which you are entitled to.

I'm no expert on legalities, but if we are relying on the CCA, DPA and the FOS here, then I don't believe there is any difference to their application in Scotland. I believe there may be differences with the Limitation Act timescales, and possibly with secured loans not covered by the CCA. I take it that these WFS loans were not covered by your Trust Deed(s) ?

If you have decided to refuse their offer, then there is no need to worry about their deadline, Poochie, because the ball is now in YOUR court, and you seem to have already done what I was suggesting. What I think we will now need to do - and I believe Turbo is already in the process of doing this - is to assemble all the information we have regarding each of these loans. This is the method which Turbo and I usually adopt:-
If there is data missing, then we may have to specifically request disclosure of that data under the original DSAR - and possibly file a complaint to the ICO if they refuse.
It may be easier to start again, though, and send a completely fresh DSAR, using one of the latest templates. We will need to do this ASAP, as we will need this data before we can assemble any meaningful figures.
The DSAR should cover ALL loans in the name of the Data Subject Requesting Access. Joint loans should be included UNLESS there is a specific clause requiring countersignatures (very rare in non-business agreements).
I would suggest that we work on each loan in time sequence. The most important data will be the original agreements, showing initial loan amounts, PPI, interest, and repayments.
Next, we will need statements showing payments, charges, interest and balances.
Finally, we will need to know how and when each loan was settled - ie., date, amount, any rebates given, and whether the loan was settled by consolidation into a subsequent loan.

When we finally have a figure to claim, we send them it. We can play the long game, and simply tell them that you believe you are entitled to an unspecified sum, and just give them a ball-park figure. Sometimes, this will yield a better result than you might have got if you had specified a figure.
Or you can tell them exactly how much you believe you are entitled to.
In either case, be prepared to refer the claim to the FOS.
It may be possible to get the FOS claim 'fast-tracked,' if you can show hardship. The Trust Deed(s) may help with this.

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

it all sounds simple but with welcome they make everything difficult.
our loans with them were secured on our property but they are not secured by our trust deeds which means welcome can make us sell our home if they wanted to be difficult but trust deed advisor said they wont do that because it would be referered to court and judge would throw it out and make fools of welcome finance for being silly whilst we were in trust deed....
the first loan Im sure was only in husbands name but subsequent loans where consolidated into new loans in joint names.

We dont have the very first laon agreements but Im sure if we write to them to start the whole process over again then they would have them....
I dont know what to do now...do I just wait to see if I hear from them or do I seek advice now.
Someone suggested a no win no fee law firm but altho I was willing to do so, I am a bit scared about wat will happen.

we have sent fos a copy of every letter we sent and recieved from welcome but they just seem to have gone quiet on us and dont reply to letters now.

please advise wat I do now whether we sit and wait the 21 days I gave them or whether I do send another letter to them as you suggested above.

thank you both so much for takin time to help with this.... all time and advice and help is always very much appreciated and I am hopeful that my fight with welcome is in some way helping others along the way.

thankyou so much guys
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I forgot to mention that I was disputing letters and phone charges because when they sent letters to us, they sent one addressed to me and one addressed to husband when they could have snet just one.
also the phone calls we never got, it was basically them dialing our number nad not gettin answer but they still charged us for that privelage which I was not happy about....
Im sure along the way durin this fight they have offered refund of those charges but I would have to check all paperwork which I have 3 boxes full of......ha ha

thanks again guys, very much appreciated

[Bill-K]

Re: welcome finance help needed

I'm sorry - I got kinda 'sucked into' this one, Poochie. I've scanned the entire thread here, now, and I realise that this is really just one single loan - but it is comprised of 3 separate elements - the loan advance, the PPI, and the fees.

I really need to acknowledge Scoobydoo for their brilliant help earlier on with this. Also Enaid and so many others who have chipped in here. Scooby has already highlighted this aspect, but I want to echo Scooby's findings, in that the statements of your account just DO NOT ADD UP !!!!

These are NOT proper statements, IMO. A debit must be applied as a negative, and a credit must be applied as a positive. The balance remaining should reflect this - rigidly. What you have been sent - and which purports to be a statement of your account does NOT abide by this rule. You have NOT been sent a TRUE statement of your account, IMO, Poochie. The sums just do NOT add up. No wonder you have been getting such different figures regarding your balance.

Scooby has seen this. Now I have. Turbo will see it, too, when he sobers up. This is either a complete mess - or it is one helluva deliberate misrepresentation. In ANY event, it's unforgiveable. You are NOT being given authentic data - and neither are the poor WFC clerks, I reckon.

FWIW, I'll be colluding with Turbo ASAP, and we'll get some kind of figures sorted out for you, ASAP.

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

as I always say, every bit of help and advice we get is very much appreciated.
we have fought long and hard with welcome and we are ignorant to rules and regulations etc so wenever someone gives us advice we think they are right and luckily enough on here it has always been right and without you guys to help then we would have given up a long while back.

I will wait on your next post dear, but thanks so much for all time and effort your puttin into this fight for us..... I cannot thank people on here enough other than to keep sayin it.

thankyou

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

There were 2 missed calls to my mobile phone when I got out of work this morning.
The numbers were both different but when I dialled them from my home phone just to see who they were from, they were from welcome finance.
I just hung up phone when lady said hello, welcome finance, jane speaking, how can I help?

I am curious as to why they phoning me now?
Not had any letters from them so I can only assume they want to discuss the letter I sent declining their offer.

[Turboman]

Re: welcome finance help needed

Thanks Bill for looking at this---I was aware I'd not followed through with Poochie cos of some personal crisis stuff developing both on here & elsewhere -just as we were going to discuss the situation on MSN within 5 mins.

I note your work in the thread and in E-Mail

Well done mate for getting to grips so quick

Give me till noon tomorrow to get my Barclaycard correspondence & my Halifax older stuff up on the threads---& I will be free to join the throng full time mate

Chin up Poochie--the Gorilla is on your case!!! (& the man in tights!!)

I'm sorry - I got kinda 'sucked into' this one, Poochie. I've scanned the entire thread here, now, and I realise that this is really just one single loan - but it is comprised of 3 separate elements - the loan advance, the PPI, and the fees.

I really need to acknowledge Scoobydoo for their brilliant help earlier on with this. Also Enaid and so many others who have chipped in here. Scooby has already highlighted this aspect, but I want to echo Scooby's findings, in that the statements of your account just DO NOT ADD UP !!!!

These are NOT proper statements, IMO. A debit must be applied as a negative, and a credit must be applied as a positive. The balance remaining should reflect this - rigidly. What you have been sent - and which purports to be a statement of your account does NOT abide by this rule. You have NOT been sent a TRUE statement of your account, IMO, Poochie. The sums just do NOT add up. No wonder you have been getting such different figures regarding your balance.

Scooby has seen this. Now I have. Turbo will see it, too, when he sobers up. This is either a complete mess - or it is one helluva deliberate misrepresentation. In ANY event, it's unforgiveable. You are NOT being given authentic data - and neither are the poor WFC clerks, I reckon.

FWIW, I'll be colluding with Turbo ASAP, and we'll get some kind of figures sorted out for you, ASAP.

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

thanks so much guys.... every bit of help very much appreciated.

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

more missed calls but no letters....Im curious as to why they eager to contact us and why they dont leave message on our answer machine......very strange

[seduraed]

Re: welcome finance help needed

when i was working in collections for Welcome we could make a reasonable number of cal ls to a debtor but were only allowed to leave 2 messages each day . That was the total otherwise we were told it could be deemed to be haraasment . So check with them it's in the policy manuals . I don't know if these can be seen under a sar or not as theyare full of a lot of business sensitive information but you might be able to get a copy of the computerised record that is held on you . This is held on a system called siebel and every outgong call from the main lines is recorded as are all the outcomes. They can also arrage days and times to call if that is required as there is a sophisticated diary system . If you have an old acccount there are previous systems (Mida and Financier) and you may need to approach the data contoller separately . To get any data from the system you will need to get the name of the data contoller at head office and write to them personally . Dont try anything else all that will happen is that yoiu willget fobbed off or told to payand the we'll co-operate . Remember that welcome staff are targetted to collect and when I worked there you could nearly double your salary from a measly £17k basic to respectable £30K if you hit targets every month . Most staff wil say anything to get payment . So insist that if you talk to them its from the main 0845 lines as all calls outbound are recorded .:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[poochie]

Re: welcome finance help needed

thanks sudared