CCA requests to a P.O. Address

[Curlyben]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Have they supplied ANY form of agreement at all ??
A blank agreement is completely meaningless and by their own admission they cannot find your original agreement anyway.

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Hi CB, No, nothing apart from the schedule of charges and the blank, unsigned, agreement on two A4 sheets.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Could they take this to court though and argue that there is an implied contract in that I have made payments from 2002?

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Bump. What is the next course of action following receipt of this letter? Do I acknowledge the debt?, request that the charges are refunded? make arrangements to pay outstanding? or send SAR requesting a true copy of the agreement along with all other details ever held by them about me and if no longer held, when and how that data was destroyed?

[Curlyben]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Under CCA there is NO such thing as an implied contract, especially in pre 2007 agreements.

For now I would hold fire on anything and see what they do next.
At the end of the day, if they can't supply the agreement then they will NOT be taking any further action.

No CCA = No Enforceable agreement.

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Hello all, I still have not received any further communication regarding this debt to HFC and they have not provided a copy of the signed agreement. They are, however, continuing to send default letters and statements. What should I do Here? Thanks Piesky

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Bump. Still getting default letters etc. but HFC has still not supplied a signed credit agreement. How do I stop them from sending out the defaults?

Thanks for any advice.

[Sapphire]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Hiya, have you had a read of Curly's guide to the CCA, it might help you along the way. If not I'll give Curly a shout for you Legal Beagles

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Hi Sapphire,

Yes I have read Curly's guide to the CCA and CB has been of great help so far. What is concerning me the most at the moment is that HFC are still sending out default letters and threatening with action.

Piesky

[Curlyben]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Well send them the ignored CCA letter from #9.

The default/demand letters are likely to continue as they are computer generated, but no worries there.

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Thanks Curly,

I have the letter below. Would it be appropriate to send this to them now?. rgds Piesky

Dear Sir/Madam,

Further to your recent communications informing me of defaults on the above account, you are clearly unaware the documentation supplied by you in no way complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) insofar as it is completely lacking any of the prescribed terms required for a credit agreement (including but not least, a fully signed agreement) The prescribed terms specified in Schedule 6 of Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1553 are as follows:
* credit limit
* repayments
* rate(s) of interest

There is no mention of any of these terms in the information sent under the CCA request and, as such, this document has no validity in law as a regulated credit agreement. As such, this is a clear breach of s61(1) of CCA:
61(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible. Furthermore this document is totally unenforceable in a court of law as laid out in CCA s127(3):

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed term of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

To quote the Judge in Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299:
33 In my judgement the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of s127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated.
Also in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] 3 All ER 229, Sir Andrew Morritt said:
26 The recognition that there is nothing in the 1974 Act which prevents an improperly executed regulated agreement from giving rise to contractual rights, nor which prevents the right to possess goods pawned as security passing on delivery of the goods, provides the answer, as it seems to us, to the principal argument advanced on behalf of the Secretary of State in support of his submission that there is nothing in s127(3) of the 1974 Act which is incompatible with convention rights. It was said, in effect, in relation to Art 1 of the First Protocol, that, where there was no document signed by the debtor - or where the document signed by the debtor did not contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement - neither the agreement, nor the delivery of the pawn, conferred any enforceable rights on the creditor. So, in the present case, the creditor had no relevant 'possessions' to the peaceful enjoyment of which it was entitled, or of which it was deprived by s127(3) of the 1974 Act. In effect, the creditor - by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms - must (in the light of the provisions in ss65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid; so there is nothing to engage the rights guaranteed by Art 1 of the First Protocol. Nor, on that analysis, does the creditor have any civil rights in respect of which it is entitled to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal. Article 6 of the convention is not in point.

So, in summary, the lack of prescribed terms renders this agreement unenforceable and the monies a gift that was never intended to be repaid.
I would point out that the sums you have received from myself in respect of this ‘debt’ were paid under this clear Mistake in Law. Payments were made in the belief that the contract was valid, enforceable and compliant with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and subsequent Statutory Instruments.
The recent judgement in Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue, show that Restitution and compensation at contractual rates are available at common law for money paid in mistake. As such, there are clear grounds for making a claim for Restitution in this case, and I am certain that a Judge would look at your actions in this case in a very unfavourable light considering your continued unlawful pursuit of this matter.
Swift resolution of this matter without the need for court action would be preferred but, for the avoidance of doubt, any legal action instituted by you will be vigorously defended and I will make a counterclaim against HFC for repayments of monies paid plus interest calculated at your current contractual rate, as well as damages at the Court discretion. This is the level at which a court would award payment in this case.

I now have the option of reporting you to the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards in relation to these matters. I also have the option to request sight of all information you hold or have ever held on me including, but not limited to, a fully regulated and executed agreement and a list of all charges levied. This would be requested under a Subject Access Request. However, prior to doing this, I am giving you the opportunity to suggest an acceptable conclusion to us both in this matter. Please be advised that if you follow up to this letter with further threats I will not hesitate to take matters further and as suggested and without further notification, I will also make an official complaint to ??? Police force under the Protection for Harassment Act 1997, Administration of Justice Act 1970 and Fraud Act 2006.
I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this rather than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.
I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and await your rapid response.

Yours faithfully,

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Hi again Curly, The default letter from HFC, by the way, is now threatening with legal action if the full amount is not paid immediately together with extra interest and legal charges.

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Urgent Help Please.

Have just received a letter from restons Solicitors that reads as follows:

Dear Sir

HFC Bank ltd v. Yourself Ref ??????
HFC Bank personal Loan Account Balance £3214.31.

We are instructed by HFC Bank Ltd to claim immediate payment from you of the balance on your HFC Bank Personal Loan Account as detailed below:

24/4/20009 Default Balance - £2755.05
24/04/2009 Collection Charge - £ 459.26
Total Due £3214.31

Plus Capitalised interest as appropriate.

You must now pay £3214.31 to this office by Monday May 4 2009 failing which a summons will be issued for the full balance PLUS any continuing interest, fees, and costs. A judgement may be entered against you which may be registered. Your credit rating will be affected making it difficult to obtain credit in the future.

Our client may be prepared to accept payments by instalments. If you wish them to consider this please complete the enclosed questionnaire and return to this office within six days. Unless we hear from you we may decide to telephone you on any number available to us. Alternatively, please telephone us on the above number within six days. All future correspondence/payments should be sent to this office clearly marked with you name and account number. Receipts will not be given unless specifically requested.

Finally, our client has asked us to draw your attention to an opportunity for you to clear the account at a specifically discounted settlement figure which could represent a substantial saving for you. If you are interested, you should call the direct line telephone number above.

Yours faithfully

Mr M McDonald, Litigation Executive.

WHAT SHOULD I DO HERE? They have still not supplied a copy of the CCA???

[Amethyst]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Think it will be a part 31 request for the cca and a holding defence, also a part 18 request and request for breakdown of the collection charge (which we'll then defend as disproportionate)....let Curls have a look o the CCA bit and We'll put them off putting the claim in in the first place anyway as they know they dont have the right info - so OFT 664 comes into play too thus;

Charging for debt collection
2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.
2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
a. claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express
contractual or other legal provision
b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay
collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there
is no contractual provision

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual
and necessary costs
e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.


2.4
b. falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally
cannot,



From curly's guide

Pass it to their "Solicitors" for further threats

Well this is quite normal as there are a number of "Solicitors-for-hire" out there.
I'm sure you can think of a few.

In this case a nice simple reminder would be an idea.
Let the solicitor know they are onto a losing streak from the get go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letter for Solicitors
Account In Dispute
Dear Sir/Madam,

Your Ref : xxxxx

Your Client : XXXX

I refer to your letter of xx/xx/2007, which was received today.

Frankly, I am surprised of the need to remind a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement request (Consumer Credit Act, 1974); received by XX DCA XX on xx/xx. I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you.

Should your client now persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by XXX DCA XX under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

Yours faithfully,

[HelenaTroy]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Hi,
I want to send a CCA request to a DCA, DLRS, acting on behalf of beneficial Finance. I only have a P.O. address and won't be able to send it registered. Any help on this please? If I just send it, how will I know they have received?

Thanks, Columbus

I sent two letters this week - both to PO Box addresses.
One was to Debt Managers and the other to Morgan (Cabot's in-house litigation!!! people).

Both were sent recorded delivery and both were signed for the next day.

Hope this helps.

[piesky]

Re: CCA requests to a P.O. Address

Help anyone please.

After sending the 'Surprised' letter to Restons Solicitors in reponse to their letter posted above, I have received a reply stating that Restons will be commencing legal action immediately to collect the outstanding sums of money.

They have still not supplied a true copy of the original credit agreement as previously explained.

What do I need to do next?

Thanks for any help.

Piesky.