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Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

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  • basa48
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by Ihaterbs View Post
    Para seven is sweet.
    Maybe, but 24 / 25 not so much:

    24. On the one hand it is for the claimant to prove its case, and it has not done so on its own documents. On the other hand, first the point was not taken below; and secondly the effect of Section 78 is only suspensory so that if the claimant can give further evidence, either by finding the correct version of the terms and conditions in HFC’s archives inherited from Beneficial Bank or by putting in evidence as to the interest rates prevailing in the summer of 1998 or in some other manner, the claimant may yet be able to prove its case and to comply with the obligation under Section 78, in which case it may be that it will become entitled to judgment. It is accepted, and there are first instance authorities for this, that failure to comply with Section 78 does not prevent a creditor from starting proceedings, but it does prevent a creditor from obtaining judgment.

    25. Accordingly, there may be a case for this Court on allowing the appeal to remit the case to the county court so as to give the claimant an opportunity to put in further evidence and to try again to comply at last with the request made under Section 78 in February 2007 rather than to dismiss the claim entirely. Whatever order should be made in consequence, however, I would allow the appeal and set aside the judge’s order on the basis that the claimant has not shown that the documents in evidence are a true copy of the agreement between the defendant and Beneficial Bank in July 1998 and therefore has not shown that the obligation under Section 78, which arose on the request made in February 2007, has been complied with.

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  • pt2537
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by Ihaterbs View Post
    Para seven is sweet.
    very sweet

    Leave a comment:


  • Ihaterbs
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by pt2537 View Post
    you are very welcome

    Para seven is sweet.

    Leave a comment:


  • pt2537
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    you are very welcome

    Leave a comment:


  • Shepherdess
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    What a sane and well reasoned case and judgement. Thanks Pt.

    Leave a comment:


  • pt2537
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Seems the Lord Justices have moved fast on this one

    Judgment was returned to me this AM

    So here it is

    Leave a comment:


  • pt2537
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by basa48 View Post
    So keep it vague right up to skeleton argument, right??

    BTW does a skeleton argument have to be submitted to the opposition, if so how long before the hearing.

    I have a hearing date and date for WS / exchange docs.
    skeletons normally 2-3 days before trial.

    unless the Court directs otherwise

    Leave a comment:


  • basa48
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by pt2537 View Post
    can also give them the time to formulate a killer reply too

    Thats why i play cards to the chest
    So keep it vague right up to skeleton argument, right??

    BTW does a skeleton argument have to be submitted to the opposition, if so how long before the hearing.

    I have a hearing date and date for WS / exchange docs.

    Leave a comment:


  • pt2537
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by Lord_Alcohol View Post
    That's great news cymruambyth, but I don't suppose you could share something of your case here (eg, how you used the judgement?).

    I'm doing my utmost to avoid court with an rogue bank - a killer argument could lay any prospective claim to rest.

    TIA
    can also give them the time to formulate a killer reply too

    Thats why i play cards to the chest

    Leave a comment:


  • Lord_Alcohol
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by cymruambyth View Post
    Thank you pt for this case. I was able to produce it in support of my successful arguments over missing prescribed terms.
    That's great news cymruambyth, but I don't suppose you could share something of your case here (eg, how you used the judgement?).

    I'm doing my utmost to avoid court with an rogue bank - a killer argument could lay any prospective claim to rest.

    TIA

    Leave a comment:


  • cymruambyth
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Thank you pt for this case. I was able to produce it in support of my successful arguments over missing prescribed terms.

    Leave a comment:


  • basa48
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by pt2537 View Post
    well it does, but we have just asked for one point to be clarified that is all,
    OK I'm no advocate, it is just I am very nervous this decision could seriously undermine a potential defence of mine based on a bad DN.

    I have no patience

    Leave a comment:


  • pt2537
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by basa48 View Post
    Wow what a tangled web that case was.

    However it reads to me "the Barrell jurisdiction" allows a judge (given strong reasons) to reconsider and maybe even reverse a judgement prior to its handing down.

    That is more than clarification.
    well it does, but we have just asked for one point to be clarified that is all,

    Leave a comment:


  • basa48
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by pt2537 View Post
    Its not as i understand it an application which will be heard.

    If you look up Paulin v Paulin 2009 it sets out what the app is in there

    It is something that we are simply asking the judge to clarify one point in his judgment thats all, we already have the judgment here,but it is confidential sadly till handed down
    Wow what a tangled web that case was.

    However it reads to me "the Barrell jurisdiction" allows a judge (given strong reasons) to reconsider and maybe even reverse a judgement prior to its handing down.

    That is more than clarification.

    Leave a comment:


  • pt2537
    replied
    Re: Phoenix Recoveries v Kotecha Jan 2011

    Originally posted by basa48 View Post
    Do we know approx when the application may be heard?

    It really is an eagerly awaited determination.
    Its not as i understand it an application which will be heard.

    If you look up Paulin v Paulin 2009 it sets out what the app is in there

    It is something that we are simply asking the judge to clarify one point in his judgment thats all, we already have the judgment here,but it is confidential sadly till handed down

    Leave a comment:

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