Being very wary of CCA UE advice

[basa48]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Thanks Basa!

Does this put MBNA in a position where they could, at some point, come up with a reconstituted copy? Or would this be pretty much impossible?

To me it looks like they have nothing more than an application form.

Thanks again

Crispy

This is the $64,000 question.

They can certainly use reconstituted for compliance with a s78 request and avoid the consequence of s78(6).

BUT

IMO they need a copy of the executed agreement in its original form (i.e. with sigs and PTs) for proof of proper execution, (s61) especially if the agreement has been varied when Reg 7 comes into play.

The question I need answering is what constitutes a copy of the executed agreement in its original form ??

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi All

See attached the incomplete CCA from MBNA that they have sent me and admit is currently unenforceable.

Apologies for the quality, they sent a photocopy which was folded in 3 places which I've then had to scan so didn't come out as well as I'd like.

To me it just looks like an application form but would like some more sage advice on whats missing etc.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Best

Crispy

Yep no prescribed terms.

I am assuming this was a four page leaflet of something as on the second page (declaration page) it says agree to the terms overleaf, and obviously if this was on the reverse of the page where you filled in name and address etc, theres no terms overleaf, so think this must have had something else on the reverse of both those documents, and those two pages were in the middle (I'm so crap at explaining but like an A3 sheet folded into make 4 pages)

So unenforceable as it stands, but all they would have to do is recreate what was on the reverse of that declaration page to make it enforceable (assuming that that was the T&Cs with the prescribed terms in).

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

[Quote]
"I/We accept to be bound by the conditions set out overleaf, which may be varied from time to time" [End Quote]

So, where are the inception terms & conditions?

And yes, Reg 7 of the Copy Documents Regs 1983 do apply!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Yep no prescribed terms.

I am assuming this was a four page leaflet of something as on the second page (declaration page) it says agree to the terms overleaf, and obviously if this was on the reverse of the page where you filled in name and address etc, theres no terms overleaf, so think this must have had something else on the reverse of both those documents, and those two pages were in the middle (I'm so crap at explaining but like an A3 sheet folded into make 4 pages)

So unenforceable as it stands, but all they would have to do is recreate what was on the reverse of that declaration page to make it enforceable (assuming that that was the T&Cs with the prescribed terms in).

The correct (inception) T&C's, A!

MBNA, would also have to supply the terms as varied.

What was the date of application?

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I know.

Depending on the date, there is a thread somewheres abouts about when MBNA took on A&L's cards business, which might be of assistance later.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...ds-638571.html

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi All

Thanks very much for the replies and taking time to look at the CCA its much appreciated.

I am assuming this was a four page leaflet of something as on the second page (declaration page) it says agree to the terms overleaf, and obviously if this was on the reverse of the page where you filled in name and address etc, theres no terms overleaf, so think this must have had something else on the reverse of both those documents, and those two pages were in the middle (I'm so crap at explaining but like an A3 sheet folded into make 4 pages)

Thanks Amethyst. TBH I have absolutely no idea what the document consisted of and DW cannot remember either as it was such a long time ago.

The agreement was taken out in 1998 so I was surprised they even got this much! You're right it was an old A&L card which was taken over by MBNA several years ago.

I'm pleased now we have offered (and started making) payments with DW's DMP even though it is currently unenforceable, as if they could come back with a reconstructed agreement it would give us less leverage if we had not been trying to be reasonable in getting this situation sorted out.

Thanks again Beagles for helping out.

All the best

Crispy

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi All

Thanks very much for the replies and taking time to look at the CCA its much appreciated.



Thanks Amethyst. TBH I have absolutely no idea what the document consisted of and DW cannot remember either as it was such a long time ago.

The agreement was taken out in 1998 so I was surprised they even got this much! You're right it was an old A&L card which was taken over by MBNA several years ago.

I'm pleased now we have offered (and started making) payments with DW's DMP even though it is currently unenforceable, as if they could come back with a reconstructed agreement it would give us less leverage if we had not been trying to be reasonable in getting this situation sorted out.

Thanks again Beagles for helping out.

All the best

Crispy

Your choice, of course but remember every payment made re-affirms the debt;
set the clock ticking again...

[WendyB]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Your choice, of course but remember every payment made re-affirms the debt;
set the clock ticking again...

but Crispy is not trying to avoid the debt or wait for it to become SB, he has chosen to pay it.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

???

However, I did state to the OP:
"Your Choice".

Sorry, WendyB but I do not follow the, moral obligation Carp!

[pt2537]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Nor did the HOL in Wilson, Dimond etc

[WendyB]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I didn't mention moral obligation. I was merely pointing out that the OP had chosen to pay it, so the comment about the clock ticking was un-necessary as he has chosen to pay the debt and is aware that the payments will re-affirm it.

But for what it's worth I don't agree that we should encourage people to avoid debts either.

[pt2537]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

the CCA provides that payment can be made by consent but withdrawal of that consent gives rise to no liabilitys

[Differentjudge]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I had a letter from MBNA nearly 2 years ago to say

"Due to archive retrieval issues your agreement is not available."

You will see from my thread that i went all the way to court with this and lost. so i still have the debt and a further £6800 in costs

So you are probably doing the right thing if you can get the interest frozen and make a payment plan at an affordable payment

weigh up the pro's and cons

1)Have a balance of £5800 at 32.6% and struggle to find the money and have all that worry, and endless phone calls. rob peter to pay paul etc

2)Accept it , negotiate and pay off a balance of £5800 at 0% £20 per month till your circumstances change for the better

3)or go to court have months of sleepless nights and 100's of hours reading the forums and have a balance of £12600 at 0% and possibly a charging order . so the worry of missing a payment and possibly loosing yourhome is greater

which would you choose?????

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Indeed DJ, Sometimes self preservation has to outweigh everything, and if that ends up coming down on the 'moral' side of things, so be it.