Capitial One - CCA Request

[frisp]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

TS involvement may be on the ball at the moment but I doubt they'll do owt in the long run. Best bet is to change your number, its easy to do. that way they can only contact you in writing.

[archer_66]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

fuzzy a great way to avoid the calls are when they ask to confirm details such as name etc say NO lol they cant say anything more,then send them a letter about phone call harrassment and say you do not give your permission to call
just a thought, you dont have enough charges on the account to cancel the debt do you?? as this was the case in my case.
they are a pest but they do go away eventually, especially if you report them as you have done, they dont believe you will til they get the letters..

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

Can't change my number as It's also used for my self employment and I don't want to risk losing buisness by changing the number.

Have received these 2 letters - should I send Power2conatct a dispute letter and ignore Debtass????

Debtass have been ringing and caught me on Saturday (my daughter answered the phone!!) - I had a lengthy discussion about why i wasn't going to pay, but they ignored everything i said and insisted that a CCJ would be granted against me.

[archer_66]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

what i usually do , is write them a letter saying that you do NOt give permission to contact you by phone and that you require all contact to be in writing in case you need to call upon evidence in court.and add " [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I would like to point out that while this alleged debt is in dispute it should not have been sold on to a third party ,neither should it try to be collected on. This should be returned to the originator and all third party letters should cease"[/FONT]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']it usually works for me [/FONT]

[luss]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

I have been following this thread with interest as I have been down the same road as Fuzzy with Capital One. I was surprised however to read that his complaint to the FO had been rejected on grounds that they did not consider this their remit. Is this a response that other people have had? I did send a complaint to the FO but still await an outcome.

I live in Scotland so the legal situation is somewhat different. I have another similar situation with MBNA and they took the matter to Court. Their hired hand stood up to demand repayment and was somewhat surprised when I stood up to challange on the grounds of the CCA1974. This was even more surprising as I had submitted a defense prior to the hearing. The sheriff obviously was not up to speed with the CCA1974 and asked me for clarifications on certain matters and asked me to sumbit a summary for a future hearing.

This was duly set and we reconvened two weeks ago. The hired hand stood up once gain and stated that MBNA had met the requirements. This was palpable nonsense as what they had provided was a tear of slip of the application form. My problem was that the Sherriff had not read my summary so we went over the relevant legislative clauses to demonstrate my case. The hired hand was still repeating the clockwork statement that the document provided did comply. The sheriff had obviously not been party to any similar hearing and to protect himself, or avoid making a judgement, set a date for a full hearing in months time. The anti has been raised as he advised that I will have to retain a solicitor to speak on this occassion.

I will ensure that this is done but I would be interested to learn if anyone else has reached this stage and is it likely that MBNA (via thier DCA) will pull out at the last minute. This action does seem to be designed to intimidate but I would be intersted if anyone has had a similar experience with MBNA, or any other creditor.

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

what i usually do , is write them a letter saying that you do NOt give permission to contact you by phone and that you require all contact to be in writing in case you need to call upon evidence in court.and add " [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I would like to point out that while this alleged debt is in dispute it should not have been sold on to a third party ,neither should it try to be collected on. This should be returned to the originator and all third party letters should cease"[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']it usually works for me [/font]

Have already done this - twice!! They are ignoring the letters and just going off on their own way

[frisp]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

I have been following this thread with interest as I have been down the same road as Fuzzy with Capital One. I was surprised however to read that his complaint to the FO had been rejected on grounds that they did not consider this their remit. Is this a response that other people have had? I did send a complaint to the FO but still await an outcome.

I live in Scotland so the legal situation is somewhat different. I have another similar situation with MBNA and they took the matter to Court. Their hired hand stood up to demand repayment and was somewhat surprised when I stood up to challange on the grounds of the CCA1974. This was even more surprising as I had submitted a defense prior to the hearing. The sheriff obviously was not up to speed with the CCA1974 and asked me for clarifications on certain matters and asked me to sumbit a summary for a future hearing.

This was duly set and we reconvened two weeks ago. The hired hand stood up once gain and stated that MBNA had met the requirements. This was palpable nonsense as what they had provided was a tear of slip of the application form. My problem was that the Sherriff had not read my summary so we went over the relevant legislative clauses to demonstrate my case. The hired hand was still repeating the clockwork statement that the document provided did comply. The sheriff had obviously not been party to any similar hearing and to protect himself, or avoid making a judgement, set a date for a full hearing in months time. The anti has been raised as he advised that I will have to retain a solicitor to speak on this occassion.

I will ensure that this is done but I would be interested to learn if anyone else has reached this stage and is it likely that MBNA (via thier DCA) will pull out at the last minute. This action does seem to be designed to intimidate but I would be intersted if anyone has had a similar experience with MBNA, or any other creditor.

The FOS will respond to any complaint that concerns the enforceability of agreements by stating they are an arbitration service and not a court and that these issues should be resolved through court action.

However it does take them a long time to investigate and until they complete the dispute stands and you can refer legitimately to OFT guidance to keep DCAs and Creditors at bay.

[archer_66]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

just a thought do they have a signed agreement? i dealt with capital one but i was reclaiming charges. if they do not have a CCA id just ignore them to be honest and if they take me to court id get my case ready then when there ask for compensation for harrassment
and if the accounts in dispute anyway id would ignore their letters and wait for FOS and OFT to sort them out. they do take a while to do this but just send them copies of letters as they arrive to show harrassment and law breaking on the side of the other party. i know it can be stressful but companies seem to flout the law and push you to pay up no matter what. not sure how they can still trade to be honest
xx

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

FOS have already sent back their responce, they aren't interestd and stated only a court can rule on unenforceable agreements.

Everythign that Cap 1 has sent me i've posted up, but they never have actual sent my agreement in fyll, only bits and pieces of stuff, such as a blank CCA, the loads of T&C and finally a signature box with my signature in it, but no other details.

[archer_66]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

have you sent them an SAR? you might have already said so i apologise in advance been a long weekend :s

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

No, not bothered as the charges on the account won't be anywhere near the balance. I will SAR them if/when we get to court tho.

Shoudl I be sending the new company a dispute letter?

[luss]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

Thank you for the clarification on the FoS and the fact that they will not become involved in the enforcement issue. If however the complaint is that the creditor has not provided the copy agreement, this is surely a compliance and administrative matter. Nearly all lenders who provide erroneous documentation in response to a section 78 request then claim that they have complied. This assertation is then used to justify the pursuit of payments, the imposition of interest and charges and the registering of adverse credit information. This deliberate and perverse self interpretation of the regulations must surely be a legitimate matter for the FOS. If FoS confirm that the agreement is in default, this precudes the creditor from pursuing payments, charges and registering adverse credit. The enforcement issue is then made very much more simple.

If a creditor dismisses or ignores letters highlighting the regulaotory transgressions, this must then become maladministration or disingenous information designed to mislead. Am I correct in thinking that the construction of the complaint to the FoS is as important as the content.

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

FOS take one look at enforceable issues and apply the line of "only a court can decide". They just aren't interested. because they send out somethign (ii.e,. a blank form and T&C) FOS state that it's a court issue, as the court can demand they provide the actual agreement .....

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

I had a long conversation with Trading Standards regardign my complaint about Cap 1 and Debtass. I think to begin with he had missed the point and was staign that the company had sent me the CCA under the terms of true copy. It was only when i explained that the copy they sent me is what i would sign now, not what i signed in 2004 and the reason i knew this because the current agreeent list fees at £12 and in 2004 they were higher that this, he realised that perhaps the true copy requirement wasn't fullfilled.

He clarifed the situation with an email -i'm still not sure his explaination is completely correct tho......

From the guidance we discussed yesterday there are two basic points that I would like to bring to your attention. The first relates to the term 'true copy' .
The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement e.g. the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan

It may be that the copy you have been provided with can be a true copy, the changes in the charges that we discussed may still have the same terms. I do understand that the agreement they have sent you is today's agreement and not one of when you signed in 2004. The correct process as I understand it should be that a document the same as you signed should be sent to you, and any amendments that have been made (such as changes in charges) should be sent in a separate document. I will clarify this situation and let you know what the outcome is.

The second point relates to the date of the agreement and if the agreement is then enforceable.

The consequence of the debtor not having signed a credit agreement with the creditor is that the agreement is unenforceable except where the court orders that enforcement may take place. Where the agreement was made before 6th April 2007 the court is not able to make such an order unless the agreement was signed by the debtor.

Your agreement was signed in 2004, and therefore before April 2007, and at first reading it appears that if the company can not produce a signed copy of the agreement then they can not get a court to enforce against the agreement. As the company have supplied a signature box, I think this would all hinge on the production of a true copy, so we could be back to your original point. I will seek clarification on these two points and see if is any case law that upholds this guidance. As we discussed it would be down to the courts to decide if this is relevant as they would look to the legislation and any precedent of case law.

I will e-mail you as soon as I have a clearer picture of the status of the documents you have been sent, and if the date of the agreement means that they have to shown a signed copy. I will also out line what this service can do, and if it is not us who can proceed then who the correct authority is.

[archer_66]

Re: Capitial One - CCA Request

wow ! now that is interesting! thanks for that piece of information, you should send a copy of that off to the idiots who are harrassing you now.. see if they change their tune, thing is nothing ever gets done to these companies for the harrassment and blatant misuse of the consumer law....