Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

[Amethyst]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Thank Amethyst, I've read the attachment and I obviously don't possess your powers of deduction (should call you Sherlock in fact!) cos I don't really understand how this helps me.

I need to know if the fact that they say they have a "record" of sending a Default Notice constitutes proof (acceptable in court???) of sending such a notice.
I appreciate that they can't produce a copy (and would be unlikely to be able to enforce the debt) , but they are saying that all their letters are automatically generated and not held on file. Should I now:
a) write back to them and contest that a Default Notice was never received (as indeed it never was!)?
b) Do I put them on notice that we do not intend to continue paying the balance?
c) And what do I do then about reclaiming the charges from the joint account, which was consolidated with a loan to make up this very dodgy debt?

Are there any templates for this sort of dispute debt? I can't find them (promise I have been looking).

Any help gratefully received
(changing my name to Flounder)
Sweets

[WendyB]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

I can't really help you with the CCA attachment, but, with regard to claiming back charges, if you are saying the debt is not enforceable, then surely you wouldn't be able to reclaim the charges? As by reclaiming them you would be acknowledging the debt? I thought you could do CCA or charges but not both. But no doubt someone with more knowledge than me will be along soon.

[Curlyben]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

So let me get this straight.
They have defaulted you on an agreement that appears NOT to exist ?!

[Smasher]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

I can't really help you with the CCA attachment, but, with regard to claiming back charges, if you are saying the debt is not enforceable, then surely you wouldn't be able to reclaim the charges? As by reclaiming them you would be acknowledging the debt? I thought you could do CCA or charges but not both. But no doubt someone with more knowledge than me will be along soon.

I know that this has already been done by a couple of people at CAG. One claimant even forced the creditor to pay him by bacs before he would drop the claim, then took them for costs!
Whether or not it is the 'right' thing to do is up to the individual & his experience, but the creditor is hardly going to step into court and risk having their costs examined and risk being branded a vexatious litigant for turning up to defend the indefencible..

We have received confirmation that they will not be pursuing the debt on the gold account, however there is no claim for charges against the loan account. I would argue that it is now in dispute given their inability to produce the credit agreement - would you agree?

thanks once again for any help you can give.

Sweet

Your permission/consent for them to record, store & circulate data is contained in the consumer credit agreement. No agreement = no permission/consent. Any data they have recorded, stored & circulated to 3rd parties such as CRA's in the absence of a valid agreement is unlawful and potentially libellous if it is defamatory i.e. defaults & late payment markers e.t.c.

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

So let me get this straight.
They have defaulted you on an agreement that appears NOT to exist ?!

That's right. In summary, for this consolidated account:

1) they would only give my husband a bank account on condition that they consolidated a previous (joint) loan and (joint) overdraft (which included unlawful charges) and made this into this account.
2) no CCA was produced, my husband was never given anything to sign and the amount which appeared as a 'loan' to be repaid included all the interest from the previous loan account.
3) The default appeared on his credit reference (4/6/05) at about the time they say they issued one, however they have also said it was sent to his previous address. He never received notification of a default.

I have not started a claim for unlawful charges on this account at this time, based on the fact that the account was opened and conducted on what appears to be an unlawful basis.

Thanks for all your help. Any thoughts you have would still be appreciated.
Sweets.
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I know that this has already been done by a couple of people at CAG. One claimant even forced the creditor to pay him by bacs before he would drop the claim, then took them for costs!
Whether or not it is the 'right' thing to do is up to the individual & his experience, but the creditor is hardly going to step into court and risk having their costs examined and risk being branded a vexatious litigant for turning up to defend the indefencible..


Your permission/consent for them to record, store & circulate data is contained in the consumer credit agreement. No agreement = no permission/consent. Any data they have recorded, stored & circulated to 3rd parties such as CRA's in the absence of a valid agreement is unlawful and potentially libellous if it is defamatory i.e. defaults & late payment markers e.t.c.

Hi smasher, thanks for this.

Could you send me a link to the Cag cases you have mentioned so that I can do some research?

Also are you aware of any template letters that I can send them regarding the data situation?

Cheers again
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I can't really help you with the CCA attachment, but, with regard to claiming back charges, if you are saying the debt is not enforceable, then surely you wouldn't be able to reclaim the charges? As by reclaiming them you would be acknowledging the debt? I thought you could do CCA or charges but not both. But no doubt someone with more knowledge than me will be along soon.

I don't know about that Wendy. My way of thinking is that a) the original amount they say is owed is unenforceable by way of not being able to produce a proper CCA (cos there wasn't one in the first place). However, b) that doesn't give them the right to place unlawful charges on any account. You see, I believe that someone can be pressured into paying money which they think they owe to a creditor, when in fact the whole basis of the debt is in question. My assertion would be that, at worst, my husband would be liable for half the amount, as the previous loan and overdraft were in joint names. He shouldn't have been forced to try to repay all the amount under threat of not being able to get a bank account otherwise. Now if a court agreed that this was the case, the half that he does owe would be unenforceable anyway if they can't produce a CCA. On top of that, to add insult to injury, they have applied unlawful charges for various transactions and on the whole amount.

I don't know if that makes sense. Someone check my logic please, I think I may be losing my marbles with this!!!

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Hi everyone, hope you are all well. I've been checking in from time to time to look at progress on the OFT case, but apart from that I'm no further forward.

I'm going to revisit my little mountain of paperwork and all the advice you've given me to see if I can devise a plan of action in preparedness for some sort of reasonable outcome from the OFT case. I know that in all this mess there are at least three lots of charges which are reclaimable and I feel strongly that, unenforceable though some of the alleged debt may be, the charges paid are an insult and shouldn't be swept aside, especially as hubby is still paying back money to RBS under a Consumer Credit Counselling arrangement.

please feel free to reply especially if, like me, you feel out of your depth! I could do with support, even if peeps are unable to give practical help. Just knowing that you are not alone is a major boost.

Sweets
xx