Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

[Sweetrevenge]

Hi everyone. I'm hoping someone will be brave enough to wade into this lot and help me sort it out.

OH and me got married in August last year - very happy thank you!

When we met 4 years ago he had recently separated and was divorcing previous missus.

Their joint account (RBS) was in mess, with an overdraft of £2,200.
They also had a loan with the same bank with approximately £5,000 left to pay.

Hubby needed own account, and cos of poor credit couldn't get one anywhere else. RBS agreed to facilitate this, but on the understanding that they would consolidate the overdraft and previous loan (even though that was in joint names) into a personal loan for £10,558 incl interest. He doesn't remember getting a credit agreement to sign. To add insult to injury the account they opened was a Royalties Gold, costing £10 a month.

So his personal account (no overdraft facility) was now paying £175.98 per month into the loan account.

By October 04 he was paying approx £700 in total against this and other loans/debts arising from his marriage - and then his earnings dropped £5,000. He got into severe difficulty by the end of October 2004.

To try and get on top of this, he arranged a Consumer Credit Counselling Service payment plan with all his creditors and opened a parachute account with Lloyds to regain control of his outgoing payments. While this was being arranged and paid at £10 per month to pay off the overdraft and £85.97 per month to pay off the loan, the bank carried on attempting to pay standing orders into the loan from the already overdrawn (no agreed overdraft) Royalties Gold account. You can imagine how the charges began stacking up. Most months this totalled approximately £98 per month.

Early in 2005 he wrote and offered to pay each of his creditors as much as he could afford to settle his debts but this was unanimously rejected. So he continued to pay an amount each month to each account as a contribution.

So from charges (which were the first thing to take him overdrawn in October 2004) of £30 and all the subsequent charges, he now apparently is overdrawn £1,258.33. He has been informed of this in recent letter from a DCA (first correspondence since he had statement at end of Dec 05) requesting immediate payment of full outstanding balance.

We thought that the CCCS had arranged for his creditors to stop adding interest to outstanding debts, but this turns out not to be the case with RBS. We had no idea this was going on.

Hubby is now in 2nd year of struggling small business, self employed and no proof of earnings.

I've now obtained the rest of the information re this account from RBS. I've also sent letters saying that the account(s) are in dispute.

I now need to make a decision whether these claims are better dealt with separately or together. Either way some of them will be outside the small claims track. I'd like to send a simple word document to someone so that they can appreciate the 'big picture'.

So if you're up for a challenge, please 'come back y'all'

[Niklowe]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Hi Sweet,

Not my field, but someone here will be able to advise you. Be patient, you will get the help and advice that you need.

[thephoenix]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Hiya sweetrevenge.

you seem to have a few issues here :roll:

lets try to separate them and in no particular order of importance:

Were the loans etc with hubbies ex, all in joint names?
They must have both agreed to transfer liability of loans to hubby.
(although I'm still not sure creditor can do that)
He should have signed a NEW CREDIT AGREEMENT for this consolidation.
RBS will not cancel standing order as it safe guards them for payment.
(tip for everyone, do not get a loan and pay by standing order with the organisation you bank with)

How have you put the account in dispute? Was it by issuing a letter before action?
Is he still being contacted by DCA?
Have you issued a request for a copy of credit agreement?

lots of question but if you could supply some answers we will assist further?

[Nattie]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

I am tempted to add that simply putting him onto a Royalties account with mentioning the fee is misselling.
Was he told about the Fee at the beginning?
Did he query that bit at the time and what was the response?
I would agree with all of the above that thephoenix has said.

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Hi Phoenix and Nattie,
Phoenix I've just pm'd you the document showing these accounts etc - this should shed some light but in answer:
the loan and current account were in joint names
The ex was never approached by the bank, they just consolidated the lot into his 'new' account. In reality he was the only one earning, so they've obviously decided to exercise their prerogative to pursue him only for the debt. They 'blackmailed' him into this by only agreeing to give him a current account on this basis.
He can't remember signing any new agreement, however we have written to the bank asking them to provide a copy and they haven't responded within the timescale.
In terms of the standing order, he wasn't given a choice, it was in place when the account was opened.

We have notified RBS that the Royalties Gold Account is in dispute, because they referred that and the loan account to a DCA. Do we need to dispute the consolidation loan account as well?

The letter we sent was:

Dear Sir or Madam,
Subject: Account in dispute: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am writing to clarify that I am currently in the process of requesting a refund of bank charges unlawfully made to my above account.
I note from your latest correspondence that you are proposing taking legal action against me on this account - I need to make you fully aware that I am disputing the sum owed and, as such, you must refrain from any further action until this dispute is fully resolved.
If you do file a claim against me I shall enter a counterclaim based on the unlawfulness of the charges. I shall also be seeking compensation for any default placed on my credit file under the Data Protection Act 1998 as a result of these charges.
We also asked for copies as I say of the CCA on the consolidated loan account:

Dear Ms ***********,
Subject: LOAN ACCOUNT No. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
With reference to the above account, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of the credit agreement to which the above account refers.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.


The DCA has now referred the whole debt (consolidation account and RBS overdraft) to their solicitors who've sent us another letter.

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Sorry about losing the text size on that last post, was trying to be clever (never works with me!)

Nattie, in answer to your question they told him the only account he could have was a Royalties Gold and it would cost him £10 per month. At the time he was earning and couldn't get an account elsewhere - he had no choice.

RBS did respond to our 'account in dispute' letter saying that provided the £5 per month carried on going in, they wouldn't be taking us to court. However, they haven't stopped adding interest and charges either and at £90 or more a month, that means its going to take a while to pay it back.

[Nattie]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Sweet revenge, is the account still called a Royalties Gold account? If it is, then kindly ask RBS to change it back to a non fee paying account.

[thephoenix]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

what does it say in the solicitors letter?
If you phone them and explain the legality of the consolidation, the original agreement request and the penalty charges, they will not continue with any litigation. They know the score.

send another dispute letter from our template library to the DCA.

You say you requested a copy of the agreement. When did they receive this request? and was it by recorded delivery??

Send THIS LETTER (amend to suit) to RBS and a copy to DCA and a copy to the solicitors if the total 12 working days and 30 calender day period has elapsed and not before.

you really need to send a subject access request also for a copy of the original loan and overdraft ( before consolidation) the consolidated agreement (although already requested so maybe leave this one out) but most importantly the signed agreement notice from joint account holders giving permission for liability to be transferred solely to your (now) husband.

I have looked at your lovely diagram :first: will reply on here.

In addition, can I attach your lovely flow chart thingy to this post?????. That way we could get more input.
As for issuing 1 or 3 claims, I would initially say 3 claims due to amounts but we'll sort that out later.

More questions for you. :doh:
Is the consolidation loan still an active agreement? and who is he paying this too???
Is the current balance on the RBS account still £1258.33 overdrawn???
Also the consolidation loan of £10,558.80 What is the current balance of this and who is he still paying the installments??

one final question ... honest ... What is the total amount payable to RBS on the accounts in question??
What would the total claim be??

I'll leave you with those for now. If I think of any more I'll let you know :whoo:

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Hi phoenix, wow, thanks for this. I'll answer in order

what does it say in the solicitors letter? Its from Irwin Mitchell, instructed by Intrum Justita, note that this sum remains unpaid, you have 7 days unless you pay up we may be instructed to issue legal proceedings against you . . .
If you phone them and explain the legality of the consolidation, the original agreement request and the penalty charges, they will not continue with any litigation. They know the score. I've had confirmation from the bank, however their agents are still pursuing this - is the debt now with Intrum or is it still with RBS do you think? I'll send them a copy of the letter anyhow.

send another dispute letter from our template library to the DCA. Will do

You say you requested a copy of the agreement. When did they receive this request? and was it by recorded delivery?? I'll get back to you when i've got the recorded slip.

Send THIS LETTER (amend to suit) to RBS and a copy to DCA and a copy to the solicitors if the total 12 working days and 30 calender day period has elapsed and not before. Will do, thanks.

you really need to send a subject access request also for a copy of the original loan (I'll have a go although we don't have the account number) and overdraft (already done for overdraft, got copies of statements and submitted LBA) ( before consolidation) the consolidated agreement (although already requested so maybe leave this one out) (confirm we've done this) but most importantly the signed agreement notice from joint account holders giving permission for liability to be transferred solely to your (now) husband. (Ok, didn't realise there had to be one of these - because we know it doesn't exist - ex wife was never approached about this as far as we know).

I have looked at your lovely diagram :first: will reply on here.

In addition, can I attach your lovely flow chart thingy to this post?????. That way we could get more input. No problem, don't think there's anything on there that shouldn't be, just didn't know how to do it myself.
As for issuing 1 or 3 claims, I would initially say 3 claims due to amounts but we'll sort that out later.

More questions for you. :doh:
Is the consolidation loan still an active agreement? and who is he paying this too??? Don't quite know how to answer this. In his RG account there was a penalty for issuing a 'default notice' but we don't know which account this relates to. We stopped receiving statements for the RG in Nov 2005 after negotiating with Consumer Credit Counselling Agency. Since then, £5 has been paid every month to each of the RG and Consolidation accounts. The RG has continued to have interest and charges added to it. We have no statements or correspondence for the consolidation account beyond 24/11/2005, except for the RBS letters saying it stands at £66xx.xx and demanding repayment of this and the overdraft, and then the letters from the DCA and their solicitor. I suspect that it is still active, the balance seems to be coming down gradually, but I'm not sure what 'active' means in this respect - does it mean "not defaulted"?
Is the current balance on the RBS account still £1258.33 overdrawn??? Yes
Also the consolidation loan of £10,558.80 What is the current balance of this and who is he still paying the installments?? RBS says it stood at £6,65.91 in Nov 07.

one final question ... honest ... What is the total amount payable to RBS on the accounts in question?? Latest letter from Irwin Mitchell says £7919.xx
What would the total claim be?? Including CCI - amounts as per diagram. If you need to know without the CCI, let me know, I'll get back to you.

I'll leave you with those for now. If I think of any more I'll let you know :whoo:

You are an absolute star :hug:

[thephoenix]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

So you have had confirmation from RBS that the account is in dispute?

Good send the letters to DCA, Solicitors and a copy of both to RBS. Get the debt passed back to RBS for now. But not just yet.

Copy of original agreement - Ok good, so the request was sent by recorded delivery awaiting date of delivery .......... (require date before any further letters are sent)

Account Numbers - In the SAR, you can list ALL the accounts RBS hold for you in one request. Even those without account numbers. Send ID with your request (although they shouldn't need it). A letter outlining the types of account and there use.

Consolidation Loan - Active just meant, Is it still being paid off. I see from your answer it kinda is. You really could do with these statements for every account.
When a joint account is active, both parties are liable for repayments. If one party wished to take on the debt as sole owner, I'm sure the creditor requires permission from the joint owner to pass it over. I might be wrong but I'm sure someone will either confirm or rubbish my comment ;-}

Total Owing/Claiming - Ok so you owe £7919 whilst RBS owe you a total of £13,737 (spread over 3 accounts)

2 claims being within 6 year limitation (total £6737)
1 being outside of the 6 year limitation (total £7000)


Hopefully someone else will add to this, as more heads are better than one as they say.

:whoo:

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

I'll send another SAR for the joint loan. thanks for helping with this, I'll get back online when I've any progress to report. Please do post the diagram - as you say, the more advice the better on this one.

thanks

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Nattie, it is a Royalties Gold, I'll send the letter and see what happens.

thanks

[thephoenix]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

I've attached the diagram for those who may be a little confused :whoo:

:grouphug::grouphug:

sorry, thats the best I can do :bolt:
I've attached it as a jpeg and in the original format (GIF), so maybe someone else could have a go.


............JPEG HERE.......................GIF HERE

[Sweetrevenge]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Thanks for posting it Phoenix :tinysmile_twink_t2:

I have taken a week off, due to looking for a place to live, and applying for a new job. Yep, it's been kinda busy round here . . . also DD's 17th today so allowing our home to be used for parties this weekend, oh joy!:tinysmile_cry_t:

I'll get back on topic this weekend - any advice, as always, gratefully received.

Just for a laugh, had this posted to me today, entitled 'WAYS TO MAINTAIN A HEALTHY LEVEL OF INSANITY". Enjoy!!

1. At Lunch Time, Sit In Your Parked Car With Sunglasses on and point a Hair Dryer At Passing Cars. See If They Slow Down.
2. Page Yourself Over The Intercom. Don't Disguise Your Voice.
3. Every Time Someone Asks You To Do Something, Ask If They Want Fries with that.
4. Put Your Garbage Can On Your Desk And Label It "In."
5. Put Decaf In The Coffee Maker For 3 Weeks Once Everyone has Gotten Over Their Caffeine Addictions, Switch to Espresso.
6. In The Memo Field Of All Your Checks, Write " For Smuggling Diamonds"
7. Finish All Your sentences with "In Accordance With The Prophecy."
8 . Don't use any punctuation
9. As Often As Possible, Skip Rather Than Walk.
10. Order a Diet Water whenever you go out to eat, with a serious face.
11. Specify That Your Drive-through Order Is "To Go."
12. Sing Along At The Opera.
13. Go To A Poetry Recital And Ask Why The Poems Don't Rhyme?
14. Put Mosquito Netting Around Your Work Area And Play tropical Sounds All Day.
15. Five Days In Advance, Tell Your Friends You Can't Attend Their Party Because You're Not In The Mood.
16. Have Your Co-workers Address You By Your Wrestling Name, Rock Bottom.
17. When The Money Comes Out The ATM, Scream "I Won!, I Won!"
18. When Leaving The Zoo, Start Running Towards The Parking lot, Yelling "Run For Your Lives, They're Loose!!"
19. Tell Your Children Over Dinner. "Due To The Economy, We Are Going To Have To Let One Of You Go."
20. And The Final Way To Keep A Healthy Level Of Insanity.......
Send This Posting To Someone To Make Them Smile.
Its Called ....... therapy
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

[thephoenix]

Re: Sweetrevenge's Hubby v RBS

Thanks for posting it Phoenix :tinysmile_twink_t2:

I have taken a week off, due to looking for a place to live, and applying for a new job. Yep, it's been kinda busy round here . . . also DD's 17th today so allowing our home to be used for parties this weekend, oh joy!:tinysmile_cry_t:

DON'T DO IT !!!!!!!!!!!! :whoo::whoo: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::whoo::whoo: