Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks Budgie.

Can I just ask about my e-mail / PM, of Wed 18th ?

I raised a very important issue (to me !) in this and would be really grateful of your thoughts ?

Do I need to worry that Northants County Court haven't yet signed for the recorded copy of letter ? Maybe they have it but didn't in fact sign ?

Regards,

R

[Amy]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Do I need to worry that Northants County Court haven't yet signed for the recorded copy of letter ? Maybe they have it but didn't in fact sign ?

No, they probably don't sign for them in any case. Presumably you have the receipt from the post office and this is sufficient under CPR.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thank Amy.

By the way I haven't heard anything else from any of these 3 parties yet BUT have had ANOTHER letter from Shoosmiths who're chasing for the same debt too ! They've basically had my CCA request and they've said they'll be back in touch when they get the paperwork from Natwest - unlike I.M. who ignored my original CCA request (apart from cashing the £1 fee and knocking off my alleged debt !) and instead chose just to go straight down the legal action / court claim route !

Kind regards,

R

[WendyB]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

this sounds like another case where IM and Shoosmiths were both chasing the same debt, and both put in court claims for the same debt, and it was all very messy, but at this moment in time I can't remember who's thread it was. I seem to remember it sort of truned out ok in the end though...

Anyone?????

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks for that Wendy - can anyone throw any light on this ?
Thanks,
R

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

It's this thread RB. You need to read from the beginning.

Legal Beagles

There is a basic counterclaim in there at post 209 which will give you an idea of how this is to be worded.

and here is another defence and counterclaim for reference ( this is a very good one ) Legal Beagles

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thank you Budgie.

Can you please assist me with the timescales I'm working too (based on info in previous posts) ?

Did you say I need to start thinking about a defence, this week ?

Ref. my private messages (to your e-mail) - did you have any thoughts about my big issue ?

I'm a bit out of my depth and starting to worry again in case I miss any deadlines ?
Kindest regards,

R

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

yes you need to get it in this week. The PDF that bud linked you to is a good basis for your defence and counterclaim so if you work through that and amend to suit your details then we can go through it with you.

Don't worry about shoosmiths.

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi RB,

Actions for this week !

As Ame has posted below please have a go at drafting up the defence and counterclaim using the example in link provided. Post it up and we can polish if necessary. We need to get this ready to go by the end of this week, although we do not to send until Monday ( if at all ).

Irwin Mitchell have got a couple of working days left to respond to your CPR 31.14 letter.

If they fail to respond then you have some options to consider as a result of that failure.....

"If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.
If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.
Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order."

Do not worry too much about the "big issue". If matters actually proceed to a court hearing and that is not yet definite, I have some ideas. I will check these offline with Ame and get back to you.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Ame & Budgie & thanks for your kind replies.

I'll have a read through and have a punt on my defence but can you please offer some advise:

1) My CPR letter was sent on Fri 13th. I have a POD saying it was signed for at I.M. on Mon 16th - is their 7 days now classed as up or is it 7 working days ? I'm not 100% sure ?

2) The fact that they haven't yet replied - does this still mean I need to prepare a defence ?

3) The Court Claim was issued on 6th Nov, rcvd by me on 11th Nov and I acknowledged service, on-line, on 12th Nov. Does this now mean that this will automatically be transferred to my local County Court ?

4) Ref. 3) also - does this mean I now have 28 days instead of 14 days, automatically and if so when does the 28th day arrive ? (Is it 11th + 28 days = 9th December ?) ?

5) What shoulkd I do about my spreadsheet, Budgie - Do I need to re-enter this onto a different form to the one I PM'ed you as I'm a little unsure ?

Thank you,

R

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Answers in red below

Hi Ame & Budgie & thanks for your kind replies.

I'll have a read through and have a punt on my defence but can you please offer some advise:

1) My CPR letter was sent on Fri 13th. I have a POD saying it was signed for at I.M. on Mon 16th - is their 7 days now classed as up or is it 7 working days ? I'm not 100% sure ? 7 working days ( last day tomorrow ) but I still think we should prepare a proper defence and counterclaim rather than just a holding defence. Don't worry we will add a bit into the defence about IM failure to comply with CPR request.

2) The fact that they haven't yet replied - does this still mean I need to prepare a defence ? Yes, see above.

3) The Court Claim was issued on 6th Nov, rcvd by me on 11th Nov and I acknowledged service, on-line, on 12th Nov. Does this now mean that this will automatically be transferred to my local County Court ? Once you have submitted a defence Yes.

4) Ref. 3) also - does this mean I now have 28 days instead of 14 days, automatically and if so when does the 28th day arrive ? (Is it 11th + 28 days = 9th December ?) ? 28 days from when deemed served - around 2nd December.

5) What shoulkd I do about my spreadsheet, Budgie - Do I need to re-enter this onto a different form to the one I PM'ed you as I'm a little unsure ? I will do this for you, I will do two versions, on for statutory interest and an alternative for compound interest

I also had a chat with Ame about the other issue, we do not think you need to worry about you preferring to handle this matter on behalf of your wife. It is a joint account so you should be entitled to speak on behalf of the both of you. Again we will add something into the defence to cover this matter.


Thank you,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Oh Budgie............

Thank you so much.

So, basically, if I.M. haven't responded by tomorrow do we let the couyrt know they've not complied with my CPR and ask for it to be thrown out ? I guess its not quite that simple ?

So should this all be rectified one way or the other by about 9th December or could this go on for months ?

Thanks again,

Rob.

PS Also a little concerned that we're trying to defend all of amount bout my counterclaim isn't for as much - surely I'm therefore only defending part ?

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie,
I'm just taking my tasks one at a time (defence first) and have started with a template from your second of the two links supplied in post #51 (quote):

case/claim No: xxxxxxxxxxx
In the Northampton County Court
NAT WEST BANK PLC
CLAIMANT
-AND-
DEFENDANT
DEFENCE
All allegations made in the particulars of claim are denied unless specifically admitted in this defence. 1: The Defendant had a personal bank account, account number xxxx hereinafter referred to as "the Account", maintained at the Claimant's xxx Branch sort code xxx 2: The Account, at the time of the claim, is in debit by £3471.41 3: The Defendant disputes the amount of £3471.41 in full, it being made up of unauthorised transaction charges and debit interest and subsequent charges on the same. The Defendant avers that the charges are not intended to represent and are disproportionate to any alleged actual loss, in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Defendant, but instead unduly enrich the Claimant and therefore are not owed to the Claimant as claimed. It is the defendant's contention that these charges are unfair under The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999 SCHEDULE 2 Indicative and Non-Exhaustive List of terms which may be regarded as unfair (e) Requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a dis-proportionately high sum in compensation . 4: If the Claimant avers that these charges are reasonable, fair and proportionate, then the Claimant should reasonably be able to disclose evidence of their actual losses in relation to contractual breaches by the Defendant.
5: The Defendant has been in communication with the Claimant regarding the disputed amount. See Appendix 1a for copies of letters sent to the Claimant on 26th March 2009, acknowledged by the Claimant on 2nd April 2009, Appendix 2a: The Defendant enters a counter claim for the full balance of the account and additional amounts as detailed on his schedule of charges in Appendix 3a. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've changed the above to suit my claim and will post (with personal stuff removed) once finalised BUT I'm just unsure about part 5), at the bottom ?

I'm more than happy to refer to my 2 x claim letters to Natwest BUT:
Firstly I've actually issued 2 claims, not one !
Secondly you've now disputed / increased my original figures !
If I use my letters as reference then the figures won't tally with your revisewd ones ?

Hope this makes sense ?

Can you offer any ideas / guidance ?

Big thanks,

R

------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
BTW Am I ok to do these documents in MS Word instead of Adobe PDF format ?

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie,
I'm just taking my tasks one at a time (defence first) and have started with a template from your second of the two links supplied in post #51 (quote):

case/claim No: xxxxxxxxxxx
In the Northampton County Court
NAT WEST BANK PLC
CLAIMANT
-AND-
DEFENDANT
DEFENCE

All allegations made in the particulars of claim are denied unless specifically admitted in this defence.

1: The Defendant had a personal bank account, account number xxxx hereinafter referred to as "the Account", maintained at the Claimant's xxx Branch sort code xxx

2: The Account, at the time of the claim, is in debit by £3471.41

3: The Defendant disputes the amount of £3471.41 in full, it being made up of unauthorised transaction charges and debit interest and subsequent charges on the same.

The Defendant avers that the charges are not intended to represent and are disproportionate to any alleged actual loss, in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Defendant, but instead unduly enrich the Claimant and therefore are not owed to the Claimant as claimed. It is the defendant's contention that these charges are unfair under The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999 SCHEDULE 2 Indicative and Non-Exhaustive List of terms which may be regarded as unfair (e) Requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a dis-proportionately high sum in compensation .

4: If the Claimant avers that these charges are reasonable, fair and proportionate, then the Claimant should reasonably be able to disclose evidence of their actual losses in relation to contractual breaches by the Defendant.

5: The Defendant has been in communication with the Claimant regarding the disputed amount. See Appendix 1a for copies of letters sent to the Claimant on 26th March 2009, acknowledged by the Claimant on 2nd April 2009, Appendix 2a:

The Defendant enters a counter claim for the full balance of the account and additional amounts as detailed on his schedule of charges in Appendix 3a. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've changed the above to suit my claim and will post (with personal stuff removed) once finalised BUT I'm just unsure about part 5), at the bottom ?

I'm more than happy to refer to my 2 x claim letters to Natwest BUT:
Firstly I've actually issued 2 claims, not one ! Refer to both sets of claim letters with dates.
Secondly you've now disputed / increased my original figures !
If I use my letters as reference then the figures won't tally with your revisewd ones ? That doesnt matter we will add something to explain the difference, along the lines of "figures recalculated taking into account additional elapsed time and further investigation intocompensation aspect regarding my claim"

Hope this makes sense ?

Can you offer any ideas / guidance ?

Big thanks,

R

------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
BTW Am I ok to do these documents in MS Word instead of Adobe PDF format ?

Thats Ok for now for the defence, we can tweak everything once you have the outline counterclaim up as well. Don't worry I won't forget to answer any question that you may have and we will cover all the options. And if you and I dont catch them am sure Ame will !!!!!

Budgie

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

And this is my 'first draft' (defence only) with private details replaced with *'s:

case/claim No: 9QR*****




In the Northampton County Court

NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC
CLAIMANT
-AND-
MRS *************
DEFENDANT

DEFENCE

All allegations made in the particulars of claim are denied unless specifically admitted in this defence.

1: The Defendant had a personal bank account, account number ******** hereinafter referred to as “the Account”, maintained at the Claimant's ****** **** Branch sort code**-**-**

2: The Account, at the time of the claim, is in debit by £4***.**

3: The Defendant disputes the amount of £4***.** in full, it being made up of unauthorised transaction charges and debit interest and subsequent charges on the same. The Defendant avers that the charges are not intended to represent and are disproportionate to any alleged actual loss, in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Defendant, but instead unduly enrich the Claimant and therefore are not owed to the Claimant as claimed. It is the defendant's contention that these charges are unfair under The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999 SCHEDULE 2 Indicative and Non-Exhaustive List of terms which may be regarded as unfair (e) Requiring any consumer who fails to fulfill his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation .

4: If the Claimant avers that these charges are reasonable, fair and proportionate, then the Claimant should reasonably be able to disclose evidence of their actual losses in relation to contractual breaches by the Defendant.

5: The Defendant has been in communication with the Claimant regarding the disputed amount. See Appendix 1a for copies of letters sent to the Claimant on ****t March 2008 , acknowledged by the Claimant on ***h April 2008, Appendix 2a and see Appendix 3a for copies of letters sent to the Claimant on **** July 2009, acknowledged by the Claimant on **** August 2009, Appendix 4a : The Defendant enters a counter claim for the full balance of the account and additional amounts as detailed on her schedule of charges in Appendix 5a.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fingers crossed this looks OK ?

Need to consider my Appendixes now - I have all 4 letters but, again, the figures won't tally up if I use your figures, Budgie ?

Thank you,

R
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Sorry Budgie our last posts appear to have passed in the night !

Can you suggest any re-wording to explain the discrepancies ?

I know 1a.2a,3a and 4a will be my letters but what about Appendix 5a - will this be your re-calculation of my charges ?

Thanks again,

R