Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

If it is shown the EAs were acting in contravention of the conditions attached to a warrant, they and the local authority are stuffed. Their actions will be unlawful from the outset. Apart from any arguments they might try and put up, my gut-instinct is that we may yet see history repeat itself and a civil enforcement company be forced to recover a vehicle they have unlawfully seized, as happened to Jacobs when they unlawfully seized someone's VW Microbus for someone else's debt.

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Can they charge enforcement fees if they get no response whey they visit.
By the way they did not visit on a couple of the days mention.


List of fees.
council debt. £127
first enforcement letter £11.20. 30/04/2014
enforcement fee 1. £145.00. 16/05/2013
visit 1. 39.00 16/05/2013
visit 2. £63.00 23/05/2013
visit 3. £67.00 03/06/2013
vat. £65.04
total £517.24

council debt. £202
first letter £11.20 12/12/2013
enforcement fee. £145.00 10/01/2013
visit 1 fee. £57.00 10/01/2014
visit 2 £68.00 20/012014
visit 3 £72.00 05/02/2014
vat. £70.64
total. £625.84

council debt £202.00
levy fee £59.70. 04/03/2014
enforcement fee 1. £111.80 04/03/2014
enforcement fee 3. £111.80 04/03/2014
storage fees. £566.61
vat. £169.98
total £1221.89

vehicle seized 04/04/2014

The fees I have highlighted in red were incurred post-6 April 214 and are, therefore, subject to the new regulations. These need scrutiny and challenge. As to the other fees, they may well find these wiped out completely by any compensation, costs and damages they may have to pay. As I stated previously, I have a feeling your case is going to come back and bite police, council and bailiffs hard on their backsides.

Sweenyblue - please don't get your hopes up about compensation. Whatever peoples' feelings, I'll believe any redress when I see it.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Have no doubt that the Metropolitan Police believe these monkeys are 'court bailiffs' exercising 'court warrants' on behalf of magistrates courts. They have confirmed that in answer to a freedom of information request and the bailiffs are never going to disillusion them.

The Met also believes that they are CEOs (civilian enforcement officers) when the term CEO only applies to those who issue parking tickets. Further the MET needs to understand that the new lawful term is enforcement agent despite the further deceit by the monkeys in wearing high viz jackets in the presence of the police with Enforcement OFFICER written on them as clearly seen in Parking Mad.

Civilian Enforcement Officers are civil servants employed by HMCTS who hold a warrant similar to a County Court Bailiff, but for criminal matters. Civil Enforcement Officers are local government officers or contractors who go around handing out penalty tickets like confetti and, when challenged by a savvy member of the public, can't get their story straight or bleat to the police they are being harassed.

On one programme I have seen, there are two HCEOs going around, wearing outfits closely resembling police uniforms, with blue and white diced bands on their stab vests, Enforcement Officer emblazoned back and front, and a badge looking almost identical to a police crest on the cab doors of their van.

This is how deceitful the civil enforcement industry can be.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

BB if the EA keeps referring to these charges as fines, the very police mindset, and their understanding of the term fine will tend to persuade them to help the EA apprehend and collar the supposed "criminal" Don't think many of the new breed of copper might understand subtle differences between a civil and criminal jurisdiction; given how persuasive some bailiffs can be.

BTW what was the programme on Pick TV it may be available as an on demand even now, on Sky+ or another straeming service or even YouTube.

You have Britcam: Emergency On the Streets and there is another called Cops, Criminals and ..... something or other. I would think most of them are on demand and/or on YouTube. Check Pick TV and 5. On one of them, Whyte & Co were the bailiff company involved and I definitely heard he EA operating their ANPR equipment say "Tell the police to stop that car".

The management of Whyte & Co are probably hoping no-one is any the wiser. For how much longer, though?

[bizzybob]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

BB if the EA keeps referring to these charges as fines, the very police mindset, and their understanding of the term fine will tend to persuade them to help the EA apprehend and collar the supposed "criminal" Don't think many of the new breed of copper might undestand subtle differences between a civil and criminal jurisdiction; given how persuasive some bailiffs can be.

BTW what was the programme on Pick TV it may be available as an on demand even now, on Sky+ or another straeming service or even YouTube.

[Fair-Parking]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Have no doubt that the Metropolitan Police believe these monkeys are 'court bailiffs' exercising 'court warrants' on behalf of magistrates courts. They have confirmed that in answer to a freedom of information request and the bailiffs are never going to disillusion them.

The Met also believes that they are CEOs (civilian enforcement officers) when the term CEO only applies to those who issue parking tickets. Further the MET needs to understand that the new lawful term is enforcement agent despite the further deceit by the monkeys in wearing high viz jackets in the presence of the police with Enforcement OFFICER written on them as clearly seen in Parking Mad.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

And as already mentioned, as it is NOT a fine, in fact the word fine needs to be removed from the whole enforcement of parking contraventions, they are civil so can never be a fine. That may make people see that trying to imply they are the same as a magistrates fine for pecuniary advantage by an unscrupulous EA, is of itself a crime.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head as to why police are assisting the likes of Newlyns and Whyte & Co on their unlawful/illegal roadside operations, BB. If Newlyns and Whyte & Co are referring to parking charges as fines, this is, possibly, skewing the police's way of thinking, albeit wrongly, resulting in the unlawful/illegal stopping and seizure of vehicles.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

mo786 - No fines in parking - only charges as in Penalty CHARGE Notice. No offences in parking - only contraventions.

Section 35 of the DPA cannot be applied as this relates to legal proceedings or potential legal proceedings. No judicial courts in parking. Just self employed bounty hunters acting using their permission to act for local authorities as a reason to collect excessive fees for themselves.

Thank you for reiterating what what I was explaining to mo786. You are a gentleman and a scholar, F-P.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Can they charge enforcement fees if they get no response whey they visit.
By the way they did not visit on a couple of the days mention.


List of fees.

council debt. £127
first enforcement letter £11.20. 30/04/2014
enforcement fee 1. £145.00. 16/05/2013
visit 1. 39.00 16/05/2013
visit 2. £63.00 23/05/2013
visit 3. £67.00 03/06/2013
vat. £65.04
total £517.24

council debt. £202
first letter £11.20 12/12/2013
enforcement fee. £145.00 10/01/2013
visit 1 fee. £57.00 10/01/2014
visit 2 £68.00 20/012014
visit 3 £72.00 05/02/2014
vat. £70.64
total. £625.84

council debt £202.00
levy fee £59.70. 04/03/2014
enforcement fee 1. £111.80 04/03/2014
enforcement fee 3. £111.80 04/03/2014
storage fees. £566.61
vat. £169.98
total £1221.89

vehicle seized 04/04/2014

The fees I have highlighted in red were incurred post-6 April 214 and are, therefore, subject to the new regulations. These need scrutiny and challenge. As to the other fees, they may well find these wiped out completely by any compensation, costs and damages they may have to pay. As I stated previously, I have a feeling your case is going to come back and bite police, council and bailiffs hard on their backsides.

[bizzybob]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

mo786 - No fines in parking - only charges as in Penalty CHARGE Notice. No offences in parking - only contraventions.

Section 35 of the DPA cannot be applied as this relates to legal proceedings or potential legal proceedings. No judicial courts in parking. Just self employed bounty hunters acting using their permission to act for local authorities as a reason to collect excessive fees for themselves.

And as already mentioned, as it is NOT a fine, in fact the word fine needs to be removed from the whole enforcement of parking contraventions, they are civil so can never be a fine. That may make people see that trying to imply they are the same as a magistrates fine for pecuniary advantage by an unscrupulous EA, is of itself a crime.

[Fair-Parking]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

mo786 - No fines in parking - only charges as in Penalty CHARGE Notice. No offences in parking - only contraventions.

Section 35 of the DPA cannot be applied as this relates to legal proceedings or potential legal proceedings. No judicial courts in parking. Just self employed bounty hunters acting using their permission to act for local authorities as a reason to collect excessive fees for themselves.

[Sweeneyblue]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Can they charge enforcement fees if they get no response whey they visit.
By the way they did not visit on a couple of the days mention.


List of fees.
council debt. £127
first enforcement letter £11.20. 30/04/2014
enforcement fee 1. £145.00. 16/05/2013
visit 1. 39.00 16/05/2013
visit 2. £63.00 23/05/2013
visit 3. £67.00 03/06/2013
vat. £65.04
total £517.24

council debt. £202
first letter £11.20 12/12/2013
enforcement fee. £145.00 10/01/2013
visit 1 fee. £57.00 10/01/2014
visit 2 £68.00 20/012014
visit 3 £72.00 05/02/2014
vat. £70.64
total. £625.84

council debt £202.00
levy fee £59.70. 04/03/2014
enforcement fee 1. £111.80 04/03/2014
enforcement fee 3. £111.80 04/03/2014
storage fees. £566.61
vat. £169.98
total £1221.89

vehicle seized 04/04/2014

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

I should have added - it does look liek to the road user that teh Police are assisting with debt collection - which is the problem IMO.

They are assisting in debt collection and the debt is a civil debt, which is an abuse of police powers and, consequently, unlawful. They can, quite lawfully, enforce magistrates court fines as that is a criminal matter.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

I understood that they were fines for non payment of parking tickets and each oen had got to the stage where they had been to court and numerous letters sent out - so the collection was being done on behalf of the court but will the money going to the local authority who issued the fine.
The point i was making was that even if the bailiffs were suggesting or telling the Police to stop certain vehicles the Police have the pwoer to stop vehicles and do their own checks. The section you quoted does not say any suspicion of a motoring offence is needed.
It doesn't work like that. A police officer cannot stop a vehicle without having lawful reason to do so. Stopping a vehicle because a civil debt might by owed is not one of them. It is unlawful to do so.
I am guessing the Police argument would be that they were out doing road checks on cars but that they also stopped certain vehicles in order to assist the court.
The bailiffs were acting in contravention of the conditions attached to the warrants so they acted unlawfully, too. They can only assist the court in the case of a magistrates court fine.
The stop could only be unlawful if the power to use it was misused - given the power appears to allow them to stop any vehicle for any reason (assuming they DO actually do their Police checks (which they appeared to be doing)
I am afraid they cannot stop a vehicle without having lawful reason for doing so. Civil debt is not a lawful reason.
I don't think you can say abuse of power. As mentioned, I think they will argue they did their checks and the bailiff did whatever they did because they were there when the vehicle was stopped there.
I can say abuse of power as I have been a police officer, as well as having studied law since retiring. The roadside operations by police only using intelligence, e.g. wanted person, are lawful, but not bailiffs enforcing civil debts. That is unlawful per se.
Your post seems to indicate you think the Police are merely JUST stopping cars for bailiffs - you may know better but the Parking Mad programme made it clear they were first subject to Police checks.
I am afraid that is not the case. Another programme, broadcast on Pick TV, blew the whistle on Whyte & Co as they were clearly heard telling police officers to stop vehicles. They have no power to instruct police officers to stop vehicles for civil debts and I have no doubt that the makers of Parking Mad said what you say they did. The trouble is bailiffs lie and it is becoming clearly evident the police have fallen for those lies hook, line and sinker. A police officer has no power to detain a motorist for the benefit of a bailiff who is collecting a civil debt. That is Unlawful Detention. It may even amount to Misconduct in Public Office. The bailiffs, if acting in contravention of the conditions attached to a warrant, run the very real risk of potential prosecution.
I will bow to your knowledge on warrants - although I am not convinced about the DPA. Why does section 35 not apply?
Section 35 deals with prospective and pending actions, not ones where judgement has already been made.

@@@@

[mo786]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

I should have added - it does look liek to the road user that teh Police are assisting with debt collection - which is the problem IMO.