Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

There comes a problem if the Op's case came under the new rules from April 6th as if the cab was worth more than £1350, and not on finance looks like they could now lawfully have it away and flog it as it's value is greater than the £1350 allowed for tools, Nasty.

We need to be mindful of that little "gem" as it stands, but Sweenyblue should be OK as the seizure of his vehicle was patently unlawful under the rules as they were at the time.

I doubt that any vehicle seized by bailiffs during one of these roadside operations has been lawfully seized, irrespective of whichever set of rules were in force at the time.

Strictly speaking, if a bailiff is acting in contravention of the conditions attached to a warrant or other order and seizes or attempts to seize a vehicle or other goods whilst acting in contravention of the conditions attached to a warrant or other order and the debtor or third party knows this, the debtor or third party may use as much reasonable force as is necessary to protect their vehicle, chattels or goods. Pushing a bailiff away would be reasonable force. In the scenario Baldrick describes, a bailiff reaching in through a car window is asking to have the window raised thereby trapping their arm or the back of their hand scratched with long fingernails. If a dog is in the car and just happens to do what comes naturally and sinks its teeth into the bailiff's hand, then my view is that it is the bailiff's own fault for crossing the line. A police officer would, in my view, be very foolish indeed and, potentially, be putting their job on the line, if they arrested the driver. I doubt very much that a stipendiary magistrate (District Judge) would take a favourable view of such action by police on hearing the bailiff was acting outside the law and the debtor or third party was, simply, defending their possessions as is their right to do so.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Would it be a criminal offence for bailiff to snatch keys from cars ignition after you have refused to speak to them.
is there any case law?

If a bailiff reaches into a car and attempts to remove the keys from the ignition and forcibly does so, it is similar to them forcing their way into your house - not on. My personal view is that the bailiff is acting contrary to the conditions attached to the warrant and their actions are, therefore, ultra vires ab initio. Any seizure would be unlawful and if force was use, it would be battery at the very least.

[bizzybob]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

There comes a problem if the Op's case came under the new rules from April 6th as if the cab was worth more than £1350, and not on finance looks like they could now lawfully have it away and flog it as it's value is greater than the £1350 allowed for tools, Nasty.

We need to be mindful of that little "gem" as it stands, but Sweenyblue should be OK as the seizure of his vehicle was patently unlawful under the rules as they were at the time.

[Sweeneyblue]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

This is Bedford borough council bailiffs codes of conduct.
very interesting for my claim

Vehicles or other means of transport where this would genuinely
jeopardise the debtor’s employment, but taking into account the availability of public transport
In the case of Council Tax debts only:
Tools, books, vehicles, and other items of equipment that are necessary to the debtor for personal use in the course of trade, employment, profession, or vocation. (A tool of trade is anything needed by the defaulter to carry out his trade, employment, profession, vocation, etc. A mini cab driver's car is clearly a tool of trade. A car used for simply commuting to and from work is not. For the professional person who works from home, books, a PC etc, would constitute tools of trade.)
just another nail in the coffin.

[Sweeneyblue]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Would it be a criminal offence for bailiff to snatch keys from cars ignition after you have refused to speak to them.
is there any case law?

[Sweeneyblue]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Anybody know a good barrister.
police admission of wrong procedures,
newlyns over barrel,not looking good for council,
their legal people sending laughable letter trying to justify actions.
so looking for good barrister to go to court with, must be confident in there ability under pressure.

thanks all

[rds60h]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Might be worth a chat with the relevant people - who were the programme makers ? It's important, because if that was incorrect,and they hadn't checked it out legally before putting out the show, it demonstrates the wrong thing to people who have bailiffs etc visiiting, so needs correcting.

Although Parking Mad is being shown on BBC it is made by a company called Century Films, who were also responsible for another documentary series called Bouncers which also showed bouncers committing similarly illegal practices.
Contact details for Century Films are :: Century Films
Studio 32
Clink Street Studios
1 Clink Street
London SE1 9DG
E-mail: info@centuryfilmsltd.com
Phone: +44 (0)20 7378 6106
Fax: +44 (0)20 7407 6711

[bizzybob]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Just a point for clarification, as the ceiling for tools of trade are now £1350, and a workers vehicle is usually worth more than that , unless it is on finance then under the new rules if they were in at the time the programme was made, it looks like Debbie could have the Instructors car away clear and legit Shame on you MOJ!!!!!!!

[Sweeneyblue]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

They sent warrants of control that have been backdated to last April 2013 these warrant never came into force until April this year.
what can I claim compensation for besides lost of earning?

[Sweeneyblue]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Original warrants have been sent to me but these are blatantly fake awaiting council response, to demand for cars return

[ncf355]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Over the weekend I finished an article on the subject of Police and Bailiff ANPR Roadside Operations for a trade journal. It is due to be published on Thursday of this week and following publication I will be allowed to post a copy on the forum.

PS: I have spoken with 3 solicitors since the Parking Mad programme was aired and each one of them agreed with me that the driving instructors car was almost certainly a TOOL OF THE TRADE and consequently should NOT have been seized !!!!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it fell into two categories:

1) Tool of his trade

2) on finance

But if people aren't educated about this, and "Aunty" continues to transmit what appears to be a VERY biased program, this will continue

[Milo]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Over the weekend I finished an article on the subject of Police and Bailiff ANPR Roadside Operations for a trade journal. It is due to be published on Thursday of this week and following publication I will be allowed to post a copy on the forum.

PS: I have spoken with 3 solicitors since the Parking Mad programme was aired and each one of them agreed with me that the driving instructors car was almost certainly a TOOL OF THE TRADE and consequently should NOT have been seized !!!!

[Amethyst]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

Might be worth a chat with the relevant people - who were the programme makers ? It's important, because if that was incorrect,and they hadn't checked it out legally before putting out the show, it demonstrates the wrong thing to people who have bailiffs etc visiiting, so needs correcting.

[bizzybob]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

It is also the reason why the Police Federation and Superintendents Association need to be approached directly as to the legality of these operations. I suspect there would be a rapid change in policy if they knew the legal consequences for their members of taking part in such operations.

Perhaps the innocent pupil oh her way to the test should sue Whyte & Co for the cost of her test and other consequential losses, if the car was illegally taken as it was tool of trade.

[bluebottle]

Re: Stop by police during routine check baliff took my pco reg.taxi

It is also the reason why the Police Federation and Superintendents Association need to be approached directly as to the legality of these operations. I suspect there would be a rapid change in policy if they knew the legal consequences for their members of taking part in such operations.