Threatened with prison today.

[John139]

Hi,

I have today been told that If I cannot settle my full outstanding council tax bill that I will be arrested and sent to prsion.

In July 2013 I was several months behind in my council tax bill. I called the council and arranged a repayment plan of £250 p/m until the debt was settled. However I had a very unexpected medical bill that I had to pay of £1000 and could only make a payment of £200.00 to the council.

The oustanding amount is £926.00.

They wrote to me and said that they would be passing my debt over to the bailiffs, when I called them they refused to discuss the matter with me insisting it was with the bailiffs and none of their concern.

I called the bailiffs who stated that they would not under any circumstances accept anything less than full payment which I could not afford. I offered to pay £300.00 immediately with a monthly sum of £150.00 which was refused. They made their visits whilst I was out and so have never spoken with them on the doorstep.

I recieved a liabillity order two months ago and again I contacted the council asking them to accept money from me (albeit not the full amount) but the declined.

A week ago I was asked to complete a earnings declaration which I did along with a letter begging them to accept £300.00 and then £150 p/m. They called today and said that as I had not paid any money toward the bill they would be asking the bailiffs to attend one last time and if they do not recover the full amount the council debt officer will push for an arrest warrant for me to be committed to prision (his words).

He did this time accept that the council will accept payments that are not for the full amount and I have now paid £300 at the paypoint today.

However if they do arrest me and I get a record I will lose my job and probably my career. I'm pretty terrified.

Thanks for reading.

[bluebottle]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Hi,

I have today been told that If I cannot settle my full outstanding council tax bill that I will be arrested and sent to prison. Not unless you refuse to pay.

In July 2013 I was several months behind in my council tax bill. I called the council and arranged a repayment plan of £250 p/m until the debt was settled. However I had a very unexpected medical bill that I had to pay of £1000 and could only make a payment of £200.00 to the council.

The oustanding amount is £926.00.

They wrote to me and said that they would be passing my debt over to the bailiffs, when I called them they refused to discuss the matter with me insisting it was with the bailiffs and none of their concern. Yes it is. Which council is involved?

I called the bailiffs who stated that they would not under any circumstances accept anything less than full payment which I could not afford. I offered to pay £300.00 immediately with a monthly sum of £150.00 which was refused. They made their visits whilst I was out and so have never spoken with them on the doorstep.

I recieved a liabillity order two months ago and again I contacted the council asking them to accept money from me (albeit not the full amount) but the declined. They cannot lawfully refuse to accept any payment.

A week ago I was asked to complete a earnings declaration which I did along with a letter begging them to accept £300.00 and then £150 p/m. They called today and said that as I had not paid any money toward the bill they would be asking the bailiffs to attend one last time and if they do not recover the full amount the council debt officer will push for an arrest warrant for me to be committed to prison (his words). Who said this, the council or the bailiffs?

He did this time accept that the council will accept payments that are not for the full amount and I have now paid £300 at the paypoint today.

However if they do arrest me and I get a record I will lose my job and probably my career. I'm pretty terrified. They cannot arrest you. You have to be summoned before a court and be given the opportunity to explain why you have not paid. Being prevented from paying affordable amounts by a bunch of scummy bailiffs is not grounds for seeking a committal to prison.

Thanks for reading.

Responses in red text. Which council is involved and, also, which firm of bailiffs?

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The council is Thurrock, the bailiffs are Whyte and Co.

The debt management guy at the council said that my actions constituted a refusal to pay, regardless of the fact I told him I would pay £300.00 today.

A week ago I was asked to complete a earnings declaration which I did along with a letter begging them to accept £300.00 and then £150 p/m. They called today and said that as I had not paid any money toward the bill they would be asking the bailiffs to attend one last time and if they do not recover the full amount the council debt officer will push for an arrest warrant for me to be committed to prison (his words).
Who said this, the council or the bailiffs? This was said by the debt managment officer at the council.


However if they do arrest me and I get a record I will lose my job and probably my career. I'm pretty terrified. They cannot arrest you. You have to be summoned before a court and be given the opportunity to explain why you have not paid. Being prevented from paying affordable amounts by a bunch of scummy bailiffs is not grounds for seeking a committal to prison. This is a huge relief but the guy at the council was really explicit in saying that I will be arrested, I asked him to carefully outline what steps he would take to lead up to this and he said:

He would write to the court to have an arrest warrant written and served on my by the police.

The police will arrest me and keep me in a cell until a court/judge was available to hear my case.

The judge will then decide how long to commit me to prison for.

This is very close to what he said word for word.

[Inca]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Does your council work on Saturdays???
If not..(and I don't know of any that do,but as always,happy to be corrected) who the flipping heck fed you that blarney?

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The guy called me this afternoon 14:30. He's the debt managment officer for the council.

[Amethyst]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Definitely a complaint to the council on this one.

Little out of date but they have been in the spotlight before on the councils debt ''management'' strategy.

Council's debt collection strategy under fire again

4:27pm Wednesday 15th June 2011 in News

A REPORT on the progress of Thurrock Council’s Fair Debt Policy has been referred back for scrutiny after fears it wasn’t up to scratch.

The council’s Labour cabinet was due to note the report at its last meeting, but instead voted for it to be looked at by the corporate overview and scrutiny committee before it comes back to them.

The move was welcomed by Tory councillor Robert Gledhill, who got in touch with the leader of the council, John Kent, to complain about the standard of the report before the meeting.

Cllr Gledhill, who sits on the corporate overview and scrutiny committee, said: “Every resident who is liable to pay money to the council should pay it on time and a vast majority do.

“However, for those who don’t, the council has to collect monies owed without adding unnecessary cost to residents who can’t pay or can just pay a little late.

“It should also be geared up to take action against that small percentage of residents who will not pay and put extra strain on council resources.

“Unfortunately the proposed policy didn’t meet those criteria and would have left the council at risk of compensation claims and unnecessary risk of extra costs.”

Thurrock Council was criticised in April for the “questionable methods” it has used in the past to collect council tax arrears from vulnerable residents.

A Thurrock Citizens Advice Bureau report expressed concerns about the use of bailiffs and threats of bankruptcy or court proceedings.

One case study in the report detailed the way a woman with mental health issues and “substantial difficulties” in managing her finances was repeatedly sent notices and text messages by bailiffs instructed by the council.

She contacted the bureau for advice and staff twice warned she was vulnerable. However, bailiffs kept bugging her, while the council itself threatened court action

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/

This has included calling debtors outside of normal office hours, tailored correspondence and text messages, the introduction of special debt management surgeries to help those people who owe payments and, where required, direct interaction with bailiffs. The new partnership approach with bailiffs has seen collections increase by 57% in this area over the last 12 months.

also

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ts-bedroom-tax

[bluebottle]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The guy called me this afternoon 14:30. He's the debt management officer for the council.

e

On a Saturday? I don't think so. I think you will find the call was made by a certificated bailiff who is running a very real risk of losing their certificate or worse if they try that stunt again. Local authorities run an emergency service only on Saturday, Sundays and Bank Holidays. I have asked a family member who has worked in local government for 34 years to confirm this.

To the best of my knowledge and belief, local authorities have Receivers, but not Debt Management Officers. Anything to do with Council Tax would be the responsibility of the Head of Finance. There are a number of hoops a local authority has to jump through before they can scuttle off to a court for a Committal Order.

Could you name the local authority and bailiff company in your case, please?

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

I am sure it was the guy from the council I recognised the name and voice from when I called last week.
My council Thurrock Council.
The DEbt managment officer is the guys title and his letters are all on headed thurrock council paper.
The bailiff is Whyte and Co.
The bailiffs havn't done anything terrible like I've been reading in the forums on here except that they have always point blank refused any money that is less the full amount.

[Amethyst]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

e

On a Saturday? I don't think so. I think you will find the call was made by a certificated bailiff who is running a very real risk of losing their certificate or worse if they try that stunt again. Local authorities run an emergency service only on Saturday, Sundays and Bank Holidays. I have asked a family member who has worked in local government for 34 years to confirm this.

To the best of my knowledge and belief, local authorities have Receivers, but not Debt Management Officers. Anything to do with Council Tax would be the responsibility of the Head of Finance. There are a number of hoops a local authority has to jump through before they can scuttle off to a court for a Committal Order.

Could you name the local authority and bailiff company in your case, please?

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/

This has included calling debtors outside of normal office hours, tailored correspondence and text messages, the introduction of special debt management surgeries to help those people who owe payments and, where required, direct interaction with bailiffs. The new partnership approach with bailiffs has seen collections increase by 57% in this area over the last 12 months.

[Laurieloo2]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Hi,
Im no expert and can only provide you with a response from my own experiances.....
I received terrible letters from Bayliffs for an unpaid (and extremely unjustified!!) parking ticket, these companies use scare tactics which are wrong and despicable! I work for a law firm so Im pretty clued up on what tactics are used for debt recovery and they will try anything. I had a company make a copy of court forms saying they had lodged them against me, the copies were pretty bad and considering I had seen these many times at work, knew that they were fake and this is a criminal act.......falsifying court documents as a scare tactic! My point is they will try anything a thats how they make their money!
IF you make payments direct to the council they are never going to return the money saying you have to pay bayliffs so I would pay council direct. I would first of all though go to citizens advice drop in on a day where someone qualified can offer help. Surely even councils are legislated by some sort of Ombudsman so I would get the details for that and fill them in on the situation. People in hardship are meant to be given a lot more help with debts especially as your willing to make regular monthly payments and their refusal at the situation will not be taken well with an ombudsman. Even so, these will take weeks for responses. The above is correct though, there are court orders and steps to be taken, I do not believe you will be arrested in any event but in any case something like that would only happen if court orders are violated etc and to be honest you would be so far down on the list of "criminals" for violating a court order I could never see it happening!
IF I were you I would get in touch with citizens advice immediately, the ombudsman that regulates the council after CAB, make the monthly payments you suggested direct to the council perhaps by internet banking (putting in your council tax account number) so you an show a record of the payments made at all times. They is also a fund called "the hardship fund" that British Gas and others do, I dont know your situation but if you are in hardship with utilities, mortgage, rent etc you can apply for a grant (again takes weeks but worth looking if you are eligable).
My sister had bayliffs for council tax and they were awful, would only except full amount and they didnt even have the right amount!! They were trying to get double the amount she owed and she was seriously ill at the time, they prey on the vunerable. And dont answer the door!! Bayliffs can only gain entry to your property is you answer the door, a window is open etc if there are no unlocked windows and doors they should not be able to gain entry.

Good luck! Stick to your guns and keep us updated x

[bluebottle]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

I am sure it was the guy from the council I recognised the name and voice from when I called last week.
My council Thurrock Council.
The DEbt managment officer is the guys title and his letters are all on headed thurrock council paper.
The bailiff is Whyte and Co.
The bailiffs havn't done anything terrible like I've been reading in the forums on here except that they have always point blank refused any money that is less the full amount.

A local authority cannot lawfully refuse any payment. If Whyte & Co are making it difficult or impossible to pay, then it can be argued they are actively preventing you from paying and that the Council, who are legally-liable for their actions, could be taken to be condoning their actions. If Serco is acting for your local Council and know of or are encouraging Whyte & Co's behaviour, just remember they are one of the companies exposed as defrauding the Ministry of Justice out of millions of pounds. They are not to be trusted. Pay what you can realistically-afford via the Council's automated payment system or internet banking. I would strongly advise you to get your ward councillors and MP involved in your case.

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Thanks for the reply, I'm pretty speechless about the court documents!

I'm currently earning a decent salary so would not be eligible for hardship - but would lose my job if I were to get a criminal conviction. This is what really bugs me about all of this I, if they hadn't told me they would not accept anything less than full payment, could have had this cleared in three months.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The guy called me this afternoon 14:30. He's the debt managment officer for the council.

Did you get the bugger's name?

Did you note down the telephone number he used?

[bizzybob]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The debt management guy at the council said that my actions constituted a refusal to pay, regardless of the fact I told him I would pay £300.00 today. Stercus bovi, and further from Amethyst's post

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/ these tactics are quite likely unlawful.

As to an actual committal to prison, if they were stupid enough to try, it could well blow up in their faces, as they have acted unlawfully by attempting to make affordable payments impossible.

[bluebottle]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/

This has included calling debtors outside of normal office hours, tailored correspondence and text messages, the introduction of special debt management surgeries to help those people who owe payments and, where required, direct interaction with bailiffs. The new partnership approach with bailiffs has seen collections increase by 57% in this area over the last 12 months.

To be honest, Amethyst, I would question the lawfulness of such tactics. Local authorities have an awful habit of doing things like this, finding out, further down the line, that the policy is either unlawful or illegal - or both - and have to back-pedal like fury to avoid legal action or try and dig themselves out of the hole they have dug for themselves. A lot of the problem lies with council officers or, to be more accurate, elected representatives failing to effectively hold council officers to account.

Whilst on The Guardian's website, I found this - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...arged-decision - Yet another of the Cabbage Patch Doll's sneaky and nasty ways of bullying those least able to defend themselves.