Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

none listed on Register of interests

Then she needs to explain why she cannot investigate your complaint.

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

I am wondering whether the police officer(s) who saw the bailiff pull the Smartphone away from your view should redeem themselves and the reputation of the Metropolitan Police by inviting this bailiff in for a "meaningful conversation" and a look at what is on his Smartphone.

huh, hardly likley. Bailiff had given a big show of calling customer services, putting it on load speaker, lady he had asked to speak with was quite sharp in her responses to him, he then pushed that little 'handset' button and walked away out of earshot. I heard him ask to speak with someone else. I'd turned to the police and actually asked is he not concerned that bailiff has something to hide as he has now moved away from earshot - got a blank look in response :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Also, if the four PCNs were not yet enforceable, the question almost certainly has to be, "How did he know?"

yep

I would certainly get your local MP involved as soon as possible and, if at all possible, arrange a meeting between you, them and the Borough Commander for Croydon. This matter needs sorting out and so does JBW and their apparently-deranged bailiff.

now, really, now likely is this?

[bizzybob]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Perhaps an FOI on Common Purpose in that council, the MET is infested up to ast least Chief Superintendent level. something is not right as Teflon Jamie's crew seem to get away with their unlawful shenanigans time and time again. It needs sorying now, as when the TCGA is implemented next year they will be clamping and selling willy nilly, as the new part will require the third party to pay into court the underpaid bailiff fees and a sum into court possibly up to what value an independent valuer places on th e seized goods. An Interpleader on steroids per se?

PART 6: THIRD PARTY CLAIMING CONTROLLED GOODS

Application of Part 648. This Part applies where a person (“the applicant”) makes an application to the court claiming that goods of which control has been taken are that person’s and not the debtor’s.
Payments into court by third party: underpayments49.—(1) Any underpayment to be determined by reference to an independent valuation under paragraph 60(5) of Schedule 12 must be undertaken by a qualified independent valuer.

(2) Any underpayment determined by the qualified independent valuer must be paid within 14 clear days after provision of a copy of the valuation to the applicant.


NASTY and a licence to seize for Jamie's crew

[Fair-Parking]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

PT post 80 - Because there is nobody to stop them

[CleverClogs]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

This matter needs sorting out and so does JBW and their apparently-deranged bailiff.

By getting the "gentleman" sectioned? :der:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Had an email response from local cllr regarding the complaint of the bailiff and his conduct, and also of the police, "I would not be able to investigate this matter myself. All I could do is send your initial correspondence to the Borough, letting them know why you have asked me to do so.
Would you like me to do this?"

I appreciate you haven't seen contents of my letter, but anyone have a clue why, as my local ward cllr she couldn't look into this matter? Just as well I copied letter to all 3 ward cllr's and MP - maybe one of them will !!!

That letter declining to be of any real help should be published, so that other voters may see what an utterly useless and self-serving snollygoster she is.

You should also send copies of your letter to the Leader (or Fuhrer) of the Council and to the Leader of the Opposition or Local Resistance Movement; the Council Fuhrer might wish to ignore it, but his opposite number may be able to use it.

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

By getting the "gentleman" sectioned? :der:

Now, why didn't I think of that? Lol!

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Update - email received from jbw, states "breakdown of fees and a copy of the statutory provisions for fees and charges" were attached - not. Have replied with contents noted and please forward said attachments.
Mr bailiff, as you can imagine, 'refutes' all points. I don't consider it a thorough investigation -they haven't given dates times of his calls or attendances apart from the one on which he clamped the car.

Response claims they have tried to recover 6 warrants, letters sent, unable to obtain payment. As in post#1 it was for 1 PCN, and he had noted there 4 warrants which were not enforceable' so couldn’t have received those letters at all!

Then goes on to say they "are enforcing a Warrant of Execution... left a seizure notice and an inventory of goods at the property at the time of the vehicle being seized. This outlines the fees the fees that were applied at this time." Apart from seizure notice, no other documents left.

They have “now placed the case on hold for a period of 7 days to allow payment to be arranged with our call centre”. TE7 and TE9 already sent relating to the one warrant I guess I will have to send both for each.
.Theres a number of other points that just don’t fit. I have been vigilant in keeping records. Do you think its time to request a SAR?

[labman]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

That would not be a bad idea:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

Number 3 They have 40 calendar days in which to reply.

[paul floorlayer]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Hi sorry to gate crash this informative thread with a kinda of topic question, in regards to the police/bailiff anpr cameras, I have seen these in london a few times recently basically a anpr bailiff van parked on side of road with the police with the bailiff pulling people over, if this action is illegal and the bailiff/police pull you over, am I right in saying that his smart phone version isnt compliant in being able to enforce a warrant for example a pcn? and that to be able to enforce he would need a court stamped/signed original on his person to execute it? as he must on request be able to leave a copy with you if collecting payment.

As such with out the original warrant of execution in the bailiffs possession you could tell the police politely that as it is a civil matter that they are merely there to keep the peace and that as the bailiff has not got the correct paperwork and so cant enforce the warrant that there is no legal justification to keep you there or to have pulled you over in the first place? and then bid them good day and carry on with your journey.

regards paul

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Hi sorry to gate crash this informative thread with a kinda of topic question, in regards to the police/bailiff anpr cameras, I have seen these in london a few times recently basically a anpr bailiff van parked on side of road with the police with the bailiff pulling people over, if this action is illegal and the bailiff/police pull you over, am I right in saying that his smart phone version isnt compliant in being able to enforce a warrant for example a pcn? and that to be able to enforce he would need a court stamped/signed original on his person to execute it? as he must on request be able to leave a copy with you if collecting payment.

As such with out the original warrant of execution in the bailiffs possession you could tell the police politely that as it is a civil matter that they are merely there to keep the peace and that as the bailiff has not got the correct paperwork and so cant enforce the warrant that there is no legal justification to keep you there or to have pulled you over in the first place? and then bid them good day and carry on with your journey.

regards paul

Not at all, Paul. Home Office Guidelines make it quite clear that warranted/sworn police officers must not assist a bailiff in the enforcement of any civil debt matter in any way. They may only attend to prevent a breach of the peace and to arrest the bailiff if he/she crosses the line.

My personal view on these operations, as a retired police officer, is that they are, potentially, illegal. Certainly, a warranted/sworn police officer must not get involved in a civil matter unless there is evidence that a criminal offence has been committed.

[paul floorlayer]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Cheers Bluebottle, so in theory unless there is in the possession of the bailiff the original warrant for the outstanding charge (what ever that maybe) then they cannot enforce it and have no legal recourse to keep you there as without said warrant they shouldnt have pulled you over anyway, so you could in theory say good day sir and drive off with neither being able to do anything about it legally, and if the pc was to try to detain you for the bailiff they would be in breach of their duty as it is deemed a civil matter not a criminal matter and the pc shouldnt be getting involved unless a breach of the peace occurs, so you could report them if they insist on detaining you as they are holding you with no legal ground to stand on.

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Cheers Bluebottle, so in theory unless there is in the possession of the bailiff the original warrant for the outstanding charge (what ever that maybe) then they cannot enforce it and have no legal recourse to keep you there as without said warrant they shouldnt have pulled you over anyway, so you could in theory say good day sir and drive off with neither being able to do anything about it legally, and if the pc was to try to detain you for the bailiff they would be in breach of their duty as it is deemed a civil matter not a criminal matter and the pc shouldnt be getting involved unless a breach of the peace occurs, so you could report them if they insist on detaining you as they are holding you with no legal ground to stand on.

Strictly speaking, by pulling in motorists, just so the bailiffs could seize cars, the police were not acting in strict accordance with their Oath of Attestation and, certainly, they were not acting in accordance with Home Office Guidelines. PCNs were de-criminalised sometime ago are a strictly civil debt. Unless the police officers have lawful reason for requiring a motorist to stop - I speak as a retired policeman - they would, in the circumstances you describe, be acting ultra vires (outside the law).

[bizzybob]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Strictly speaking, by pulling in motorists, just so the bailiffs could seize cars, the police were not acting in strict accordance with their Oath of Attestation and, certainly, they were not acting in accordance with Home Office Guidelines. PCNs were de-criminalised sometime ago are a strictly civil debt. Unless the police officers have lawful reason for requiring a motorist to stop - I speak as a retired policeman - they would, in the circumstances you describe, be acting ultra vires (outside the law).

Councils and police crow about these joint "Crime reduction Initiatives" AKA revenue raising exercises, perhaps they have all been brainwashed by Common Purpose, the Fairy God Dyke, the Tooth Fairy, or Aliens, to ignore the legal realities, as "Acting Beyond Authority" (so long as you don't get caught out) is the mantra.

[labman]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Do they actually have to have the warrant on them, or be able to tell you where it can be seen within a reasonable length of time?