Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

[labman]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Croydon Council bailiffs and police working together. http://www.anpr.org.uk/anpr/police-w...down-on-crime/

Now that is interesting, as I believed parking offences had been decriminalized ages ago and were now a civil issue (unless a Fixed Penalty Notice is issued by a police officer):

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/writ...Paper%2003.pdf

So what crime is being committed here exactly? It is a civil offence being enforced through the County Courts.

[bizzybob]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Now that is interesting, as I believed parking offences had been decriminalized ages ago and were now a civil issue (unless a Fixed Penalty Notice is issued by a police officer):

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/writ...Paper%2003.pdf

So what crime is being committed here exactly? It is a civil offence being enforced through the County Courts.

It is a decriminalised council PCN, but as we know Marstons also collect criminal fines for HMCS, so may well regard the enforcement of both erroneously to be the same for their own convenience, and claim the same powers enforcing Council as a magistrates fine. they do have form for this one. JBW just carry on as if they are Judge Dredd anyway, as they often do ANPR with plod stopping the motorist for them when the ANPR goes kerching!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

So what crime is being committed here exactly?

That of stopping traffic without a valid cause?

[bizzybob]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

That of stopping traffic without a valid cause?

Tell the plod to report himself....

[labman]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

So to be perfectly clear, Fizz has not committed a crime, yet she is stopped, for absolutely no reason by the police who then permit a bailiff to assault her - a vulnerable single woman, with a 6 year old child in the car. What happens during this assault which leaves the lady unsurprisingly very shaken and the 6 year old quite possibly distressed? The police watch.

It is disgusting!

[bizzybob]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Through some joint council/police crime initiative civil debt is treated as criminal, with babylon doing the stop as the bailiff cannot, then letting the CIVIL bailiff seize the car. Disgusting, but the police will say it is a crime cleard up and add it to their stats probably.

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Whilst I would agree with ODC about reporting this to the Duty Inspector, I feel this matter needs to go higher than that; the Station Superintendent should be the starting-point. He/She needs to ask the Duty Inspector what the hell they thought they were doing allowing police manpower to be used to deal with something that is a purely civil matter and failed to intervene and prevent a Breach of the Peace as well as what could well prove to be an indictable offence on the part of the bailiff. A copy of any complaint should go to the Borough Commander for Croydon (who will be a Chief Superintendent) and a further copy to the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe.

JBW have form for this sort of behaviour and to the best of my knowledge and belief, what the bailiff did in Fizz's case, given the circumstances, could result in the discharge of his certificate, possibly without a Form 4 or a hearing, at the very least.

I would certainly email the Home Office and request an up-to-date copy of Home Office Guidelines relating to police officers dealing with incidents involving bailiffs. This could prove invaluable as the matter is progressed through the police chain of command. They will not be able to argue with the guidelines. It would also be useful to send a letter to the Home Secretary about this, as Theresa May has ultimate responsibility, as Home Secretary, for policing. Once in possession of the HO Guidelines, in writing the letter to Mrs May, Fizz should play on the facts of the incident and put Mrs May on the spot as to what warranted police officers were doing assisting a private-sector bailiff company to collect civil debts and failing to stop a bailiff using unlawful force when, clearly, the warrant had been negated and he was, in all probability, acting without lawful authority. There may also be a case under the DPA for failing to maintain accurate records, in respect of JBW's ANPR vehicle. That is something that needs pursuing with the ICO.

[bizzybob]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

The whole enforcement industry, along with distress and distraint probably breach Human Rights somewhere along the way, what happened to Fizz is disgusting and JBW should be crucified for this, if not hanged drawn and quartered. Civil debt should not be pursued as if it was criminal and people pulled over with police connivance because the ANPR went kerching!

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

The whole enforcement industry, along with distress and distraint probably breach Human Rights somewhere along the way, what happened to Fizz is disgusting and JBW should be crucified for this, if not hanged drawn and quartered. Civil debt should not be pursued as if it was criminal and people pulled over with police connivance because the ANPR went kerching!

The police should not have been assisting them in any case. What the bailiff did in Fizz's case is, effectively, the same as forcing his way into her home without lawful authority. However, the fact that the warrant had been negated by the issuing authority is an aggravating factor. It means, in essence, the bailiff had no lawful authority to act. Using force in the way he did, in the circumstances, is, potentially, very serious. The police officers who did nothing to stop him could, ultimately, face a police conduct hearing for what looks to me like blatant neglect of duty. If Fizz has written confirmation from the local authority who issued the original PCN and warrant that the warrant had been cancelled, she should copy this and enclose with every letter she sends to the police and Home Office.

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Thanks all for your support, and advice.
Just returned home with lil man E, childminder, who i called to collect E in the midst of it all, had said he kept talking about the 'stupid man' all morning. On picking E up, he'd said he was upset because the man was pushing me to get the car keys, and he was going to take him in the car - so you can just imagine the state he was in this morning!!! Didn't realise the level of grip bailiff had on my hand but I have a small swelling and redness.

Bailiff was telling anyone in the car park who was listening 'she cut off my clamp, its a criminal offence, you've got a CAD on you car. (One guy who had also been pulled over had replied "good if you put a %%@% clamp my %~%$ car Id ~%*$@$ cut the @*%$@ thing of too"!!)

I so wish I'd go the numbers of the police. Initially one had agreed he didn't support the bailiffs, said didnt know how they could do their jobs. But he was the very one who walked away when I was being grabbed by the bailiff. Another come over, eventually, and started questioning me about the clamp.

Police #2 wanted to really make a point of giving me advice, 'talk to the same person, correspond etc etc, - he'd already seen evidence I had done that, (I'd pulled up emails and letters on my mobile) but really his angle was to try and get me to admit I had cut off clamp - I didn't, bailiff knows I didn't, and I was at work. He then asked bailiff if he wanted to progress the issue with the clamp, bailiff replied its with another county's police force, they're looking into it. So even though JBW confirmed case was on hold pending an investigation, the clamp had been removed, policeman #2 wouldn't let me go, he wanted a result, to try and justify their reason for pulling me. They had already confirmed with me that I was pulled for the bailiff, not for ANY OTHER MATTER.

I'm now going to compile further letters of complaints, #tag like crazy on twitter, and even thinking of setting up online petition to get someone (the government and police) to really KNOW what rights us, the public, have in defending our rights to privacy, dignity, non interference with our jobs from bailiffs and not be hauled over by the police, acting on the behalf of bailiffs, on civil matters. I know I have the fines to pay, all I have repeatedly asked for is a breakdown showing which fine relates to which fee. Bearing in mind all the paperwork JBW send me relates to one reference and PCN that HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID!

So very annoyed! and frustrated with this all

Could anyone give me some (simple please) pointers in what I should be including and who to send. I wasn't confident enough to call the Duty Inspector as I would have got flustered and annoyed.

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

oh im so sorry, just seen your further posts with advice. Will look over, digest and cobble something together

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Follow this, Fizz -

1. Email Home Office and ask for current H.O. Guidelines on Police Officers Dealing With Bailiff Incidents;
2. Register formal complaint with Station Superintendent with copies to Borough Commander and Commissioner, Metropolitan Police with covering letter and copy of H.O. Guidelines;
3. Contact local MP and enclose copy of H.O. Guidelines and letters to police.

Although you could write directly to Theresa May, civil servants tend to intercept correspondence and the SoSs and MoSs never get to see a lot of correspondence from members of the public. Therefore, going through your local MP might be a better course as they can bend a SoS or MoS's ear and it is unlikely to be intercepted by a civil servant.

A copy of any letter from the local authority who issued the PCN, confirming you have paid the fine and lawful bailiff fees and the warrant has been cancelled, is essential. You should certainly send this to the police and your MP. This would be dynamite and cause a lot of backsides to emit tuneful sounds, especially at New Scotland Yard and JBW, especially when Jamie Waller, their MD, sees it.

Do you know what evidence JBW or this bailiff has that you removed the wheelclamp from your car? If it was ordered to be removed, then JBW and this bailiff are on very unsafe ground, legally.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

A copy of any letter from the local authority who issued the PCN, confirming you have paid the fine and lawful bailiff fees and the warrant has been cancelled, is essential. You should certainly send this to the police and your MP. This would be dynamite and cause a lot of backsides to emit tuneful sounds

In the bass, tenor or treble register?

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

1. Email Home Office and ask for current H.O. Guidelines on Police Officers Dealing With Bailiff Incidents;
2. Register formal complaint with Station Superintendent with copies to Borough Commander and Commissioner, Metropolitan Police with covering letter and copy of H.O. Guidelines;
3. Contact local MP and enclose copy of H.O. Guidelines and letters to police.

A copy of any letter from the local authority who issued the PCN, confirming you have paid the fine and lawful bailiff fees and the warrant has been cancelled, is essential. You should certainly send this to the police and your MP. This would be dynamite and cause a lot of backsides to emit tuneful sounds, especially at New Scotland Yard and JBW, especially when Jamie Waller, their MD, sees it.

Will get on to this

Do you know what evidence JBW or this bailiff has that you removed the wheelclamp from your car? If it was ordered to be removed, then JBW and this bailiff are on very unsafe ground, legally.

I recieived an email from jbw customer services stating "I can confirm that we are currently investigating this matter, once a full
investigation has been completed we will provide a substantive response." The bailiff called and spoke to the person who sent the email. I have received a response back from TEC who state they can#t deal with complaint/query, complain to the county court that bailiff is registered at, and suggest I send in TE7 and TE9 - which I am also about to do.
The bailiff is being weird, I see him/white van, passing my house about 9 this evening.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

The bailiff is being weird, I see him/white van, passing my house about 9 this evening.

How many times did he drive past?

How often has he done that?