Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

[Fair-Parking]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Thank you BB, but I am not referring to withdrawn and cancelled warrants. NO London council ever prepares any warrants in the first place. It is the great smoke and mirrors variety hall trick of the 21st century. The new illusion is the 'warrant' that miraculously appears on the bailiff's smart phone without anybody asking questions about its source or the one that is delivered to bailiff after he has attempted to enforce in the joint operation.

And where do you think they came from?......

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Thank you BB, but I am not referring to withdrawn and cancelled warrants. NO London council ever prepares any warrants in the first place. It is the great smoke and mirrors variety hall trick of the 21st century. The new illusion is the 'warrant' that miraculously appears on the bailiff's smart phone without anybody asking questions about its source or the one that is delivered to bailiff after he has attempted to enforce in the joint operation.

And where do you think they came from?......

I am aware of the scam London Borough Councils pull. Some are worse than others. I did hear of a case where a contracted bailiff company was handling the enforcement of PCNs, at all stages, including appeals. No surprise that appeals were rejected. One bailiff company made a fatal error by providing an alleged PCN debtor with a copy of a warrant with only the time and date the bailiff received the warrant showing. The debtor then checked with TEC and found the bailiff had received the warrant BEFORE TEC had even authorised a warrant. Needless to say, there were some very awkward questions to answer.

As regards warrants, these can be sent to a civil enforcement company (bailiff company) as a PDF file for the company to print off as many copies as they require. If a debtor requests to see a copy, then it is a hard copy that must be shown. I know of no case or statute law that allows a certificated bailiff to show a digital version, on a Smartphone, and claim they have complied with the legal requirement to produce a copy of the warrant.

[Fair-Parking]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

No and yes actually. The warrant must exist before it can sent from LA to bailiff company. Bailiff companies do not have any legal authority to create warrants - which is what is happening - but they can download authentic copies.

The problem with ones on smartphones is that not only do they begin their journey in a bailiff company's office computer on a commercially obtainable template, but the bailiff cannot leave a copy and thus does not comply with County Court Rule 26 (7), TEC and Department of Transport rules.

So they all create an illusionary act that Harry Houdini would have been impressed with

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

No and yes actually. The warrant must exist before it can sent from LA to bailiff company. Bailiff companies do not have any legal authority to create warrants - which is what is happening - but they can download authentic copies. Correct.

The problem with ones on smartphones is that not only do they begin their journey in a bailiff company's office computer on a commercially obtainable template, but the bailiff cannot leave a copy and thus does not comply with County Court Rule 26 (7), TEC and Department of Transport rules. Again, correct.

So they all create an illusionary act that Harry Houdini would have been impressed with. Once again, correct. And that is the weakness in the process and where I can see a bailiff being stuffed, trussed and roasted eventually.

@@@@

[ploddertom]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

No and yes actually. The warrant must exist before it can sent from LA to bailiff company. Bailiff companies do not have any legal authority to create warrants - which is what is happening - but they can download authentic copies.

The problem with ones on smartphones is that not only do they begin their journey in a bailiff company's office computer on a commercially obtainable template, but the bailiff cannot leave a copy and thus does not comply with County Court Rule 26 (7), TEC and Department of Transport rules.

So they all create an illusionary act that Harry Houdini would have been impressed with

So if they have been caught out on so many occasions why do they still persist?

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

So if they have been caught out on so many occasions why do they still persist?

They hope the next mug doesn't know. I can see a bailiff getting a bloody good hiding one of these days. It is going to come. It is only going to be a matter of time.
.

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

I am aware of the scam London Borough Councils pull. Some are worse than others. I did hear of a case where a contracted bailiff company was handling the enforcement of PCNs, at all stages, including appeals. No surprise that appeals were rejected. One bailiff company made a fatal error by providing an alleged PCN debtor with a copy of a warrant with only the time and date the bailiff received the warrant showing. The debtor then checked with TEC and found the bailiff had received the warrant BEFORE TEC had even authorised a warrant. Needless to say, there were some very awkward questions to answer.

As regards warrants, these can be sent to a civil enforcement company (bailiff company) as a PDF file for the company to print off as many copies as they require. If a debtor requests to see a copy, then it is a hard copy that must be shown. I know of no case or statute law that allows a certificated bailiff to show a digital version, on a Smartphone, and claim they have complied with the legal requirement to produce a copy of the warrant.

Aha - so this is how he knew about the "4 PCN's" that weren't enforceable yet - how comes you lot never mentioned this before lol

And another - aha - he downloaded what looked like an official document which only gave the figure of £202, which I queried, he pulled mobile away, PO also looked puzzled, and this is were he then proceeded again to tell all within ear shot my business 'yer, well, shes got 6' !!! I get referred to by bailiff as 'she' a lot - he has no idea what Im calling him in my head, but I guess he gets a kick from it anyway!

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

he has no idea what Im calling him in my head, but I guess he gets a kick from it anyway!

no no no plz, dont start, you've all been very good so far :tinysmile_grin_t:

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...093#post332093

Thanks Labman, include some of this in my complaint.

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

I am wondering whether the police officer(s) who saw the bailiff pull the Smartphone away from your view should redeem themselves and the reputation of the Metropolitan Police by inviting this bailiff in for a "meaningful conversation" and a look at what is on his Smartphone. Also, if the four PCNs were not yet enforceable, the question almost certainly has to be, "How did he know?"

I would certainly get your local MP involved as soon as possible and, if at all possible, arrange a meeting between you, them and the Borough Commander for Croydon. This matter needs sorting out and so does JBW and their apparently-deranged bailiff.

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

Had an email response from local cllr regarding the complaint of the bailiff and his conduct, and also of the police, "I would not be able to investigate this matter myself. All I could do is send your initial correspondence to the Borough, letting them know why you have asked me to do so.
Would you like me to do this?"

I appreciate you haven't seen contents of my letter, but anyone have a clue why, as my local ward cllr she couldn't look into this matter? Just as well I copied letter to all 3 ward cllr's and MP - maybe one of them will !!!

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

One possibility is something called Conflict of Interest. Check and see if the councillor has declared any interests. This might give pointers as to why they appear reluctant to get involved.

[seduraed]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

check if he's a mason dodgy things go on in their lodges

[Fizz]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

none listed on Register of interests

[bluebottle]

Re: Paid PCN, repeat notices, multiple refs, no breakdown and harassment

check if he's a mason dodgy things go on in their lodges

Especially rolled-up trouser legs.:tinysmile_grin_t: