That referendum ...

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

If older people who have paid NI and PAYE for most of their lives, have probably done their national service and saved hard all their lives to have a half decent retirement do not have the right to vote then I do not know who does. They helped to form this country. They rebuilt it after a savage world war and they are probably saddled with their grandchildren because their children cannot afford child care. Not only should they be allowed to vote,they should be asked their opinion because they are those rare things-people who actually remember what life was like before we joined the EU. They have earned the right to their opinions and more than that, they should be listened to and quoted. Most of the older people I know have far more sense than the 16 year olds prattling on about their rights. However… I have to admit those 16 year olds do have one good point; they will reap what we have sown. You see, I firmly believe that by trying to sort out one issue of migrant workers we have created another but this time it is the youth of Britain who will be condemned to wander the world looking for work.
I want to be wrong but my opinion is based on economic facts. Just saying it will all be OK will not simply make it so. I just think the UK has risked an awful lot for the sake of a few Asparagus pickers and a longing for curvy bananas (or is it straight!)

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By the way -is it possible to disagree with someone without suggesting they are stupid? I do not agree with many of the people on here and they do not agree with me but I do not think they are stupid and neither am I.

[LowEbb]

Re: That referendum ...

Hi Berti,
Maybe it's just me :tinysmile_twink_t2: are you saying that persons over a certain age shouldn't be allowed to vote? Apologises if I have misunderstood what you have posted.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

Walesman
I understand that democracy is just that but if we let older people vote why the arbitrary age of 18 after all this decision will affect those far more than the 70 +.

Meellis
Do you realise how stupid your argument sounds. people have suffered from the last recession and not benefitted from the recovery. If you think they won't notice a new recession you really are in cloud cuckoo.land.
If you have not had a pay rise for 10 years and inflation goes up and you don't get a pay rise for another 10 years I think you woukd notice it.

Berti Do you remember the last recession that was when we were in the EU Meelis is self employed so has to charge customers what they can afford no government to bail him out unlike the bankers who are now moaning about leaving

Re: That referendum ...

Walesman
I understand that democracy is just that but if we let older people vote why the arbitrary age of 18 after all this decision will affect those far more than the 70 +.

Meellis
Do you realise how stupid your argument sounds. people have suffered from the last recession and not benefitted from the recovery. If you think they won't notice a new recession you really are in cloud cuckoo.land.
If you have not had a pay rise for 10 years and inflation goes up and you don't get a pay rise for another 10 years I think you woukd notice it.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

Berti?
At what age should the right to vote have to be stopped?

[meellis]

Re: That referendum ...

Well for what its worth I don't believe doom and gloom are really necessary at the moment the country has spoken. I voted leave but believe a lot of votes were casted from gut feelings based on biased information. No need to worry about markets moving at the moment, that's the crooked making money out of misery, worry if they never rise again. Cameron fell on his sword, just what he deserves for believing his own spin and thinking he was in tune with the common man lets hope Osbourne does the same. We might fall into recession, there are some who haven't felt the effect of the mended economy yet so will hardly notice a recession. Out won not because it was a sound decision but because nobody placed a fair and reasoned argument for us to stay, just peddled scare stories about what might happen. In the fullness of time they might be right, lets face it they have been right about cutting the deficit, bringing down migration and hitting every other target they set out so they have form for knowing what they are doing. It's done now and it might prove to be a huge mistake or the making of the country, like most decisions they have to be made with a modicum of trepidation but they have to be made.

Re: That referendum ...

Openlaw15
As you clearly fancy yourself as a bit of a lawyer you should know European Convention on Human Rights is separate from the EU and even if the UK or what's left of it repeals the HRA it will still be bound by the convention and the court rulings.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

Can you? Can anyone? It could be it has as positive overall effect ie more nurses, teachers and council workers for all we know. We didn't have the facts so most people voted according to their social perspective.

The referendum was a dumb idea from the start. The general public were the least informed group yet it was left to us to decide. Nobody really knew the key facts or what all the knock on effects would or are going to be.

It was democracy for the sake of it.

So you want to deny us our democracy? The vote has been promised for years the timing may be right or wrong but its happened we MUST look into the future we survived before and will do after

Re: That referendum ...

Hi
Just read this thread and I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
1 Amethyst ECHR never has had s thing to do with the EU the common market or anything. It was signed after WW 2 and Britain was a founding signatory

2 Openlaw. Since when did 6 x 20 million equal 120 billion. You are only out by a factor of 1000

3 Nemesis. To compare Nazi Germany with the EU just shows stupidity

4 PAWS. I applaud you for you common sense and compassion

5 The Common Market was just that, guess who championed the single market. Maggie when PM

I am convinced if there was a rerun tomorrow the result would be different

Why should the people who will be dead before this cock up is sorted be allowed to screw it up for everyone.

[Ripped-Off]

Re: That referendum ...

"We will put it — [the EU Constitution] — to the British people in a referendum and campaign whole-heartedly for a 'Yes' vote." — Labour Party manifesto, May 2005

"We will have a referendum on the constitution in any event — and that is a Government promise." — Tony Blair, The Sun, May 13, 2005

If Tony Blair had delivered on his promise the UK, in my view, would have rejected the changes and we would still be in the EU now because without ratification by all member states the Lisbon Treaty could not have functioned effectively, and the changes that EU proposed and has made since then would not have happened. That was the nail in the coffin and kick-started this entire debacle.

Tony Blair...what a politician.....not.

[EXC]

Re: That referendum ...

Amethyst, tell me the benefits of FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT within the EU in regards to immigration and the impact on schools, NHS, local services etc etc.

Can you? Can anyone? It could be it has as positive overall effect ie more nurses, teachers and council workers for all we know. We didn't have the facts so most people voted according to their social perspective.

The referendum was a dumb idea from the start. The general public were the least informed group yet it was left to us to decide. Nobody really knew the key facts or what all the knock on effects would or are going to be.

It was democracy for the sake of it.

[nemesis45]

Re: That referendum ...

I've seen none on Tw@tter either :noidea: ... maybe I don't follow the 'right' people :lol:

We are magnanimous it our victory no gloating (yet):stars:

[des8]

Re: That referendum ...

no matter the result, it's the rich wot gets richer and the poor wot gets the blame.
Always was and always will be.

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

The anti immigration policy was a very key point in the leave argument and if you look at comments on websites like the Sun you will see the triumphant racists in all their glory. To say all 'Leavers' are racists is a stupid generalisation but as I say it was a huge focal point for the campaign.

The Brexit economic plan fell apart under scrutiny by the financiers and industrialists who keep the economy going and provide jobs and incomes but they were simply ignored so it is hard for some of us to see any other plausible reason for the high vote.
Now it seems the experts were right and the leaders of the leave campaign look about as consistent as the weather some people are thinking‘oops’.
So maybe they will declare a bank Holiday to celebrate their Independence day but I do think in the fullness of time this will be seen as a very dark day indeed. The billions are not sloshing about, they are being used to prop up the catastrophic effect this result.

[Crazy council]

Re: That referendum ...

..deleted double post