Delay repay on trains

[jaguarsuk]

Never ever believe it will be a friendly chat and that wording of the email is very specifically misleading.

Revenue Protection officers do not have to record their interviews under caution, they will give a witness statement based on the notes they will make in their notebook.

My son is autistic and that is how I knew about the obsession, I see it first hand and he also is very forthright when communicating, so I completely understand how it can come across as rude to people who are not used to it.

As I said, they may well want to come to an amicable arrangement, but I would specifically want it in writing that it is not an interview under caution before I believe it isn't going to be one.

[Sox1000]

Never ever believe it will be a friendly chat and that wording of the email is very specifically misleading.

Revenue Protection officers do not have to record their interviews under caution, they will give a witness statement based on the notes they will make in their notebook.

My son is autistic and that is how I knew about the obsession, I see it first hand and he also is very forthright when communicating, so I completely understand how it can come across as rude to people who are not used to it.

As I said, they may well want to come to an amicable arrangement, but I would specifically want it in writing that it is not an interview under caution before I believe it isn't going to be one.

thankyou for reply.
The interview was cancelled. As I spoke the person investigating. Explained to him my sons autism and mental health. Also my son has a mental age on someone 9 years younger than he is. That he has a registered carer. Which I provided proof of all this. Said it would not be a good idea for my son to go in the interview on his own as he didn’t want me to go with him. Explained that due to his Autism he says the first thing that comes into his head.
so now I’m waiting on a call from his manager the head of fraud department

[jaguarsuk]

They may just write this off as being too much hassle for them and too distressing for your son, but even with a mental age of 14 your son is above the age of criminal responsibility. They may decided to proceed and whilst your son does not want you there, they may just suggest he bring someone else to support him during the meeting.

If they don't proceed and they want to come to some sort of agreement about paying for what he claimed make sure:

1. what is offered is realistically affordable, he has a limited income that is meant to be 'the minimum required to live' in this country.
2. there is no admission of guilt as if he defaults on payments they could use that against him.
3. any documentation should refer to the payments being 'goodwill gestures' on the part of your son not repayments. Repaying them is a form of admission of guilt.

[Sox1000]

They may just write this off as being too much hassle for them and too distressing for your son, but even with a mental age of 14 your son is above the age of criminal responsibility. They may decided to proceed and whilst your son does not want you there, they may just suggest he bring someone else to support him during the meeting.

If they don't proceed and they want to come to some sort of agreement about paying for what he claimed make sure:

1. what is offered is realistically affordable, he has a limited income that is meant to be 'the minimum required to live' in this country.
2. there is no admission of guilt as if he defaults on payments they could use that against him.
3. any documentation should refer to the payments being 'goodwill gestures' on the part of your son not repayments. Repaying them is a form of admission of guilt.

The meeting was cancelled the fraud manager was supposed of called me on Friday but he didn’t.
my son has already admitted to it all.
so will see if I get a call next week.

[Tenpez]

I have a background in the railway, in performance and revenue protection, albeit a while back now.

To an extent Delay Repay is taken in good faith that you were on the train you say you were as realistically without a lot of work (pulling CCTV, identifying individuals and checking they board the train they said they did) it is impossible to 100% verify travel.

It will not have been noticed quickly as although it sounds unlikely, some days the same train every day is delayed and the same people travel on it. What is likely to have been noticed is that it was lots of different timed trains across different days, meaning an unusual pattern, but that takes time to build up.

What I'm trying to say is it is not the train company's responsibility to have noticed more quickly or put a stop to it. It was your sons responsibility to act in a right and lawful way.

Some revenue protection staff have the qualification to be able to interview under caution, so before agreeing to a meeting ask is that the format of this meeting? If so, take a solicitor along to the meeting.

Train companies do not tend to use the police when they prosecute, unless BTP catch an individual doing something, they're more likely to bring private prosecutions under the railway bye laws.

I don't want to worry you, but I also don't want to mislead you. The fact they are refusing a repayment plan would suggest the meeting will be an interview under caution with a view to a prosecution.

The question becomes did your son make dishonest representations to the train company with intent to have financial or personal gain? If he did, he is guilty of the offence of Fraud by Misrepresentation.

The burden of proof will be on the train company to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that is the case to secure a conviction.

Whilst I understand you mentioning your sons autism, by your own admission he is 'high functioning' and I'd imagine this is why he receives UC not PIP.

The problem is with the financial or personal gain part, he was doing it to purchase more tickets and that is a personal gain.

If they do get a conviction his autism will play a part in mitigation in terms of explaining that the number of occasions is not reflective of a level of offending and rather a trait autistic people have of obsessive behaviour, which in this instance has been a negative obsession.

An interview under causation doesn’t automatically mean a prosecution, it may be when they have conducted it they take into account the mitigating circumstance of your son having autism and decided not to bring a prosecution.

They may feel a warning and repayment plan a more appropriate avenue to go down at that stage.

I would prepare for the worst and accept anything other than that is a good result.

Hi JaguarsUK, would you be able to point me in the direction of someone in your past employment focused on revenue protection? I work for a UK based data company and we have a few ideas on how to reduce delay repay fraud & protect against examples occurring such as the initial query raised by SOX1000. We'd like to work with the rail providers & train carriers to create a data intelligent process to avoid fraudulent delay repay claims being payed out.

many thanks,

[atticus]

That's an imaginative use of the forum for business development!