Bizarre Bailiff issue - Wrong person

[throwaway12]

Hey all,

So my buddy received a notice from bailiffs about an unpaid train ticket in my name. I don't live there. So we think someone (who we most probably know) has stitched us up.

What's strange is how this person managed to give these details to a train ticket officer without proof of name and address. Won't worry about this for now..

However what I am worried about is the bailiff letter, as the total cost is now above £300! It is in my name but sent to my friends address. We have called and said we don't know what its about and that i don't live there, and they said they will "make a note" but continued to send letters. It's stressing my friend out so I offered to give them my address and I'll handle it. Not sure if that was a good idea but its in my name and my friend is getting very stressed about the whole thing.

So i will be expecting a bailiff letter or a court summon about this - with absolutely zero proof that it was ever meant for me.

What can I do here? Thanks

[ploddertom]

What does the letter say? If it is a Notice of Enforcement then it has already been to Court. Should be easy enough to deal with if it has.

[jaguarsuk]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Train Tickets are not handled the same as other debts, private prosecutions are brought through the Magistrates Court and if convicted a fine is usually handed out, although there is a custodial sentence available to the court if they so wish.

At this point you most likely have a criminal record and fine imposed by the court. You would be well advised to contact the magistrates court to find out further details.

Here's some more info about railway offences which are from the Regulations of the Railways Act 1889:

8.6 Offences used in Current Practice

8.6.1 Background to Fare and Ticketing Offences

The right of a ticket holding person to be conveyed between the two stations printed on their ticket is a Contractual right and conforms with Contract Law. There is a popular misconception that it is not, that it is a retail supply or consumer service.
As a Contract, it takes the form of an offer which is accepted with obligations by both parties - the Railway Operators will convey the Passenger, and the Passenger will make the due payment; the Ticket is not merely a receipt but a summary of some of the Terms of the Contract whose acceptance implies acceptance of all of the Terms. This distinguishes the Railway Contract from a mere retail 'invitation to treat' and there are many cases and Judgements to support this practice dating from 1867 to recent times which underpin this model of a Contract.

It is a regrettable fact of life that the Railways experience a vast degree of Fare Evasion on a continuous basis. As a consequence, there are commercial, moral and statutory pressures on Railway Operators to put in place measures to control that haemorrhage of potential revenue and to sustain those measures with innovative strategies ; measures which are proportionate, do not expose its staff to risk, which can differentiate the Fare Evader from the passenger making the innocent mistake and which curb continuing evasion. There is frequent criticism of Railway Operators, both for being excessively 'heavy-handed' in their enforcement and, equally, in being far too lax in failing to detect much of the fare evasion which takes place every day.

In practice, the evidence available can make it hard to differentiate between the regular and deliberate Fare Evader and the confused or mistaken passenger who has every wish to pay for their travel. However, staff working on the railways have a number of techniques and clues, learned from experience, which they can use to make that distinction and will routinely exercise some discretion in applying the rules. It will nearly always be easier to differentiate the Criminal from the mistaken at the point of discovery, by a consideration of their actions and words, than by attempting to differentiate them after the event, by studying the Evidence passed to a Prosecutor.

Similarly, when evaluating a first-time suspect for possible irregularity, it will generally be preferable to reach a negotiated settlement rather than proceed to hear the matter in Court [1], this is even more likely to be the preferred route in the case of a simple Byelaw offence where no intention to defraud the Railways is suspected.


8.6.2 Summary of Most Common Fare and Ticketing Offences

Travelling with the intention of avoiding paying the Fare Due.
This may include: attempting to leaving a station on arrival at a destination without buying a ticket; travelling with another person's Season Ticket; buying a Child ticket while an adult; naming a station which is closer than the actual start of the journey when leaving a train without a ticket; etc.

This will be captured by the RoRA Section 5 Offence. See Section 8.2.1
It is central to this claim that the passenger was wilfully avoiding payment, even if that was only for a brief moment while an opportunity was available, not a long-term intention to avoid payment. The 'intention' to avoid payment will be determined by reference to their actions and their words, and not to their thoughts (see above).

Failure to produce a valid ticket.
This may include: travelling on the wrong train with an Advance ticket; travelling with a Railcard-discounted ticket without the necessary Railcard; being unable to produce both parts of a two-part ticket.

These errors are captured by Railway Byelaw 18 (in a non-Compulsory Ticket Area) or Byelaw 17 (in a Compulsory Ticket Area). See Section 8.2.2
This is a 'strict liability' matter and there is no implication that the passenger had intended to avoid the proper fare.

Travel in the wrong 'class'.
Passengers holding a ticket for travel in Standard Class but travelling in First Class are captured by Railway Byelaw 19. Alternatively, it would also be possible for the Company to claim a breach of RoRA S.5, as such a passenger would not have paid the correct fare for their journey.
An Inspector would have the choice of treating this either as a 'strict liability' Byelaw Offence, where the passenger 'remains' in first class after being questioned and there is no implication that the passenger had intended to avoid the proper fare, or, as an Offence under the RoRA where it is believed that the passenger had intended to avoid the payment of the proper fare due.

(There are exceptional circumstances in which 'First Class' accomodation is 'de-classified' from which it becomes possible for a passenger to sit in that 'de-classified' First Class area while holding a Standard Class ticket with impunity).

Altering tickets.
Railway Byelaw 20 refers :

Altering tickets and use of altered tickets
(1) No person shall alter any ticket in any way with the intent that an Operator shall be defrauded or prejudiced.
(2) No person shall knowingly use any ticket which has been altered in any way in breach of Byelaw 20(1).

Once again, 'intent' is evidenced by a person's actions or words, not by their thoughts.

Where the offence is serious, such as suspicion of habitual or repeated alterations, a Prosecution for Fraud might be considered.

Forgery (of tickets).
The forgery of false tickets or passes, or the use of false tickets or passes will be treated as a Fraud with Criminal intent. Where the bulk manufacture or distribution of false documents is suspected, it is most likely that the Police would be informed and the potential for an investigation into Serious Organised Crime may follow.

Failure to pay within the time allowed.
If a passenger is given an Unpaid Fares Notice and fails to pay within the time allowed then this may either be pursued as a civil debt or the original fare could be pursued as one of the Byelaw Offences above.

Failure to give name and address.
This is a requirement created by Railway Byelaw 23 See Section 8.2.2 :

23. Name and address
(1) Any person reasonably suspected by an authorised person of breaching or attempting to breach any of these Byelaws shall give his name and address when asked by an authorised person.

It is also a requirement under Section 5 of the RoRA, where there is an interesting variation:-

5.2 If a passenger having failed . . . to produce a ticket . . . refuses . . . to give his name and address, any officer may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.

Here, Section 5.1 of the Act creates a Criminal Offence when a passenger (a) fails to produce a valid ticket, OR (b) fails to pay the fare, OR (c) fails to provide their name and address. But Section 5.2 permits a passenger to be Detained when a passenger (a) fails to produce a valid ticket, OR (b) fails to pay the fare, AND (c) refuses to give their name and address.

Providing false Name and Address
Providing a false name and/or false address, after not having already paid the fare is an Offence which is captured under Section 5.3 of the RoRA.
People with more than one address, or who have recently moved, may find themselves suspected of giving a false address after an initial check on the address given has failed when an Inspector attempts to confirm it by phone with their Company's checking agency. This is a common occurrence, and anyone in this position should not be concerned, they will not have misreported their identity and the accuracy of the address given will become apparent on further investigation. It would be wise to explain the dual addresses or their new address as soon as possible, preferrably at the time of the initial interview, to avoid risking suspicion. It will not be a surprise that people change addresses legitimately, though it might take longer to have the matter confirmed.
Similarly, visitors to the UK should be quite open and honest about their address, both a home address abroad and a temporary address in the UK - it will be for the Railway Company to decide how to correspond with a passenger once thay have all the facts.

[throwaway12]

What does the letter say? If it is a Notice of Enforcement then it has already been to Court. Should be easy enough to deal with if it has."

It is indeed a notice of enforcement. What do i need to do here and how is it easy to deal with? Cheers

[throwaway12]

"At this point you most likely have a criminal record and fine imposed by the court. You would be well advised to contact the magistrates court to find out further details."

Do you really think so? Even though they don't have my address or national insurance number? There could be many people with the same name

[Amethyst]

Contact the court ( Monday probably now ) to get all the details of the case - you will need to deal with the court as the bailiffs just carry out their instruction - were all the letters etc to date that went to your friends house just ignored until now ? Have you kept any of them ?

Have a read of this thread which is a similar situation being dealt with - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...ong-individual

[ploddertom]

If it is a Notice of Enforcement then you have a small grace period where nothing will happen. The idea of the Notice is to give you a window of opportunity to contact the Bailiff to make an offer of payment before it escalates to a visit. As it is a Magistrates Court Fine then there is a power conferred within the Warrant for them to force entry. There should be a date listed on the Notice by which you are supposed to make contact.

If you have no knowledge of this and as you say it looks as if someone has given your details then you need to contact the Court ASAP and ask to make a Statutory Declaration. At the same time you should also ask they notify the Bailiffs to hold off on enforcement action.

[jaguarsuk]

"At this point you most likely have a criminal record and fine imposed by the court. You would be well advised to contact the magistrates court to find out further details."

Do you really think so? Even though they don't have my address or national insurance number? There could be many people with the same name

Yes, if the bailiffs have traced you to your address it is likely the individual also gave your date of birth and a rail enforcement official wouldn't ask for NI number, I certainly didn't during my time doing it.

This needs to be sorted as ploddertom said ASAP as there are all sorts of sanctions at the courts disposal for non-payment of fines.