Derby Fire - Guilty

[Inca]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

Can't beat a decent cuppa msl:

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

No criminal should have new identites.

Did Maxine Carr think about the safety of others, or the parents going wappy looking for those kiddys? Nope.

Did Venebles and Roberts think of little James' human rights? Nope..

So why would anyone really care about their human rights? they took the rights of another away, breached others human rights, so theirs should not even come in to the equation.

Act like an animal.. get treated like an animal, although no animal I have ever met (with the possible exception of a turkey with PMT on my Great Granny's farm in Ireland) has ever been as evil as this!

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

Can't beat a decent cuppa msl:

Put the kettle on then Missus im GASPING!!

[jon1965]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

If we don't allow the rule of law what is the point of this site and sites like it. We may as well live in total anarchy


A cuppa is all I ever get lol

[leclerc]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

No criminal should have new identites.

Did Maxine Carr think about the safety of others, or the parents going wappy looking for those kiddys? Nope.

Did Venebles and Roberts think of little James' human rights? Nope..

So why would anyone really care about their human rights? they took the rights of another away, breached others human rights, so theirs should not even come in to the equation.

Act like an animal.. get treated like an animal, although no animal I have ever met (with the possible exception of a turkey with PMT on my Great Granny's farm in Ireland) has ever been as evil as this!

If they serve their time and paid for their crime do they deserve to live within the community once that sentence has been served?

In regards to Venables, he is released on licence with a worldwide ban on publication of his photo or identity. He has been recalled on that licence once so far but I suspect he will be recalled on many occasions.
Thompson, on the other hand does not appear to have committed any offences that has required a recall to prison and he served his sentence.
Maxine Carr was not charged with murder but of perverting the course of justice(if memory serves me right). She served her time and was released into the community. There are occasions where the identity of an individual is so tarnished because of heavy media coverage that they have to change identity for the protection of themselves from vigilante's.

There is a very bizarre case that was triggered by the now defunct News of the World in which they named and shamed paedophiles to the point in which some people were victimised out of the home that they lived in despite serving their time. That is not the bizarre case but there was a paediatrician who was attacked because some people are so thick that they cannot work out that paedophiles and paediatrician's are miles apart.

For those talking about hanging: "Let him have it!" is one phrase that can be used either to say "hand the gun over to the police" or "shoot him". Bentley was hanged for those words. His accomplice was tried as a youth and served his sentence and lived amongst the community, a murderer of a policeman.

Ultimately, if someone has served their time then they should be allowed to return to society without fear of reprisal regardless of the crime that they committed.

[Inca]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

I respect your opinion leclerc,,I totally disagree with it but I respect it.
How the bloody hell did a little stint in prison then released back into the community be punishment for Maxine Carr? or John Venables? or Robert Thompson?
On the latter 2.....what kind of evil possess CHILDREN to do what they did? They're not safe to be let out in society,and certainly not with new 'identitys'. People have the right to live in safety in their chosen community,,do you think anyone would want to unknowingly live next door to one of them? They did the crime but society does the time because noone knows if they are lurking in the shadows of their town/village.

You say should be released to live in society regardless of their crime? really?
You wouldn't have minded Fred West moving in next door then?
Or be bothered if convicted paedophile was free to wander around your local park or swimming pool?
Or a convicted rapist used the same pubs and clubs as you and you didn't know because they had served their time?

[leclerc]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

I respect your opinion leclerc,,I totally disagree with it but I respect it.
How the bloody hell did a little stint in prison then released back into the community be punishment for Maxine Carr?
Maxine Carr was jailed for 21 months for providing Ian Huntley with a false Alibi

or John Venables?or Robert Thompson?
I was going to respond separately to them but I can answer in tandem. Their sentence because they were children when they committed the murder was prison until they reached 18 years of age and then a lifelong licence. That means that they are subject to recall if they commit even the smallest of offence. It was a cause celebre so they would always be remembered for being Jamie Bulger's killer. In the case of Vennables(I think I may have said Robert Thompson earlier) he was reincarcerated in 2010 and as far as I am aware is still in prison. Robert Theompson on the other hand was released in 2001 and has not re offended in the 12 years since his release. He is still under strict conditions and remains no threat to the public.

On the latter 2.....what kind of evil possess CHILDREN to do what they did? They're not safe to be let out in society,and certainly not with new 'identitys'. People have the right to live in safety in their chosen community,,do you think anyone would want to unknowingly live next door to one of them? They did the crime but society does the time because noone knows if they are lurking in the shadows of their town/village.

I would live next door to Thompson but am not so sure I could with Venables.

[Inca]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

I would live next door to Thompson but am not so sure I could with Venables.

Knowing who he is you would willingly live next door to him? Then you,sir,,are a better (wo)man than me,because I would kick up holy hell,and if he didn't get moved then I would be gone,,no way would I risk my grandchildren(when I get some) or family members coming into any sort of contact with any of them.

[leclerc]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

Knowing who he is you would willingly live next door to him? Then you,sir,,are a better (wo)man than me,because I would kick up holy hell,and if he didn't get moved then I would be gone,,no way would I risk my grandchildren(when I get some) or family members coming into any sort of contact with any of them.

I would because Thompson has not re offended and is under strict licence. I do not believe that Thompson poses a threat to anyone.

[Inca]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

leclerc,,we are going to have to agree to differ on this I think
Thompson committed an evil evil crime as a child,God only knows what he is capable of as an adult,I wouldn't want to risk being close enough to him to find out.

[leclerc]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

leclerc,,we are going to have to agree to differ on this I think
Thompson committed an evil evil crime as a child,God only knows what he is capable of as an adult,I wouldn't want to risk being close enough to him to find out.

In the Derek Bentley case, another cause celebre, Christopher Craig shot and killed a policeman as a child. He served his sentence, which because of his age meant that he escaped the death penalty, and was released from prison and did not commit further offences.

Mary Bell killed two children in Scotland as a child. She was in Jail for 12 years and she also has a lifelong ban on identifying her. She has a daughter and was reported to be a grandmother as well. She has not committed any further offences since her release.

[Inca]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

As I said,leclerc,I'll agree to differ.I'm sure we could both find cases for and against our opinions. (btw,,as a total aside,,the film 'Let him have it' was filmed ,in part on the road I lived in,,I'm in the 'crowd scence'not that I'm noticeable)

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

sorry leclerc, love you to bits but totally disagree.

Every parent has the right to know if their child is alive or dead, Carr took that right away giving that THING Huntley an alibi. Why should she be allowed to disappear from sight? She ruined people lives, took anothers rights away.. why should there be a hoo ha that her's were taken?

Little James had a right to look in a shop safely, those evil little thugs took him and tortured him.. How many rights did they breach of his? Why should they be on the streets, let alone living a new life with a new identity?

By the whole "They did their time" arguement, surely the little shop lifting scrotes in town should get new identities? or the granny muggers.. they have served their time..

[leclerc]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

sorry leclerc, love you to bits but totally disagree.

Every parent has the right to know if their child is alive or dead, Carr took that right away giving that THING Huntley an alibi. Why should she be allowed to disappear from sight? She ruined people lives, took anothers rights away.. why should there be a hoo ha that her's were taken
I will tell you why and I did say this already in the post. The crime was pretty horrific, one of my work colleagues at that time was from the Soham area and helped with the search, and brought with it huge amounts of publicity. However, she was tried and found guilty and served her sentence. She did the crime and did her time. Once somebody is released the duty of the police to protect a human being, no matter how heinous their crime remains. Changing her name and giving her a new identity will actually make the police's job easier to do rather than having to be camped outside her house for time immemorial.
Little James had a right to look in a shop safely, those evil little thugs took him and tortured him.. How many rights did they breach of his? Why should they be on the streets, let alone living a new life with a new identity
Both of them served their sentence and are still serving their time on parole but let me put it this way. Do you know who Alethea Taylor is without using google? You know of James Bulger, you know of Maxine Carr and Ian Huntley as they were portrayed like Hindley and Brady, and your now know of the Philpott's. You might even know of Mary Bell if you were in Scotland.
By the whole "They did their time" arguement, surely the little shop lifting scrotes in town should get new identities? or the granny muggers.. they have served their time..

The issue of a change of identity argument was not made on the basis of serving their time, that argument was about their release into the community. The change of identity is specifically so that they are not themselves murdered since the police would still have to investigate, would still have to spend time and money on finding their killers and some would ask why they did not protect an individual from being murdered.
Hurricane, I have never suggested that "new identities" should be given to shoplifters.

Here is an article that might explain both sides of the argument: http://www.freshties.com/wp/?p=14731

[Inca]

Re: Derby Fire - Guilty

By securing them a new identity, it is likely that the criminal would stand a far better chance of securing employment than they would if they were obliged to disclose their criminal history on an application.

And that sentence alone scares me bandy..........Nothing to stop Venables working with kids is there?....