Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I believe that another reclaiming website, just over the road, are planning to use a similar system to notify their members of the result.

They plan to use the French based TWIT service.

[stewie082]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Hi All!

I have a few questions regarding the OFT test case and what is meant to be happening on Thursday.

After weeks of no news and then the case being extended I thought this puppy had gone to sleep. Is this just another day in the courts without a clear decision for customers?

Ok my questions -

What are we expecting to hear on Thursday with this ruling? Worst and best case scenario?

Will this be the same as the credit card scene whereby the "fee" is set at a certain amount and the balance could be refunded to customers if they lodge a complaint?


Why was everything delayed by 6 months if the judge's have already made a decision?

News on other boards are this is just another day in the life of the Test case and expectations are there will certainly be appeals progressing to the House of Lords. Any comments on this?


I think a year and half is more than enough time for us holding on and the money would be a pleasure right now.

Sorry for all the questions...


Stewie

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

This appeal focuses on whether the UTCCR 1999 applies to Bank accounts.
This is not about fairness yet.
I posted on another board, re another appeal so yes I expect an appeal as well.

[Amethyst]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Hi stewie, actually I saw your post on CAG yesterday and was frustrated I couldnt reply lol so cool you came over.

After weeks of no news and then the case being extended I thought this puppy had gone to sleep. Is this just another day in the courts without a clear decision for customers?

Ok my questions -

What are we expecting to hear on Thursday with this ruling? Worst and best case scenario? Worst case - UTCCR can't be applied and no one appeals it. Best UTCCR CAN be applied and no one appeals it

Will this be the same as the credit card scene whereby the "fee" is set at a certain amount and the balance could be refunded to customers if they lodge a complaint? No, I don't think so. Once this test case is over I expect the credit card companies will have to go through similar to get theirs sorted once and for all - remember people are still sucessfully reclaiming EVERY penny the credit card companies have charged and not simply over the £12 threshold..also as EXC has posted in a couple places the OFT have said no it won't be doing the same as with credit card.


Why was everything delayed by 6 months if the judge's have already made a decision? The waiver will be revoked when theres a final outcome, but the FSA don't want to be renewing and cancelling waiver everytime theres a possible decision, so the 6 monthly review is most sensible.

News on other boards are this is just another day in the life of the Test case and expectations are there will certainly be appeals progressing to the House of Lords. Any comments on this? Yes it will be another day in the life of the test case, but this is kind of a biggie. Yes it will likely go to further appeals but should be extremely interesting - it is I suppose always possible that the appeal judges overturn justice smiths original decision, have you read the appeal transcripts at all ? very interesting stuff. Plus its good to know a bit more than the BBC report and get to grips what the arguments are, this is after all what we have all been working towards for the last 3 years.

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I would add that should the OFT ultimately win the right to apply the UTCCR regulations (these are called the 'preliminary issues') and the OFT deem the charges unfair, the banks will then litigate on that decision and ask a court to decide if the charges are unfair (the 'substantive issues') prompting another cycle of hearings and appeals.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

For those attending tomorrow and going via the tube then the stop you need will be Blackfriars or Temple. Blackfriars tube station though will be closed from next month until 2011 so Temple if you are likely to go to the hearing on substantive issues later on in the year or beyond.
If you use google maps, type in The Strand London, and zoom in a bit to see how far they are away. The High Court is only a 10 minute walk, from Blackfriars tube station and make sure you walk away from the Thames on New Bridge Street towards the junction with Fleet Street.Turn Left onto Fleet Street and follow the road straigh on and you will hit The Strand. You simply cannot miss the High Court cos it is a fantastic looking Gothic architecture on your right.

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

The hearing is listed to last no longer than 30 minutes.

Also the listing now includes an application by the 'claimant' to appeal and also by Abbey, though I'm not sure what to read into this.

COURT OF APPEAL
CIVIL DIVISION

THE MASTER OF THE ROLLS' COURT COURT 71
Before THE MASTER OF THE ROLLS
LORD JUSTICE WALLER Vice President of the Court of Appeal, Civil Division and
LORD JUSTICE LLOYD
Thursday, 26th February, 2009
At 10 o'clock
FOR JUDGMENT
APPLICATIONS
A3/2008/1396 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Bank Plc. Application of Claimant for permission to appeal and expedition with appeal to follow if granted.
A3/2008/1406 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & ors. Application of 4th Defendant for permission to appeal and expedition with appeal to follow if granted.
A3/2008/1406(Y) Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & ors. Application of 4th Defendant for renewal of lower court part refusal of permission to appeal.
APPEALS
From The Queen's Bench Division
(Commercial)
FINAL DECISIONS
A3/2008/1400 The Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & Otrs. Appeal of 8th Defendant from the order of Mr Justice Andrew Smith, dated 23rd May 2008, filed 13th June 2008.
A3/2008/1401 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & Otrs. Appeal of 6th Defendant from the order of Mr Justice Andrew Smith, dated 23rd May 2008, filed 13th June 2008.
A3/2008/1402 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & ors. Appeal of 3rd Defendant from the order of Mr Justice Andrew Smith, dated 23rd May 2008, filed 13th June 2008.
A3/2008/1403 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & Otrs. Appeal of 2nd Defendant from the order of Mr Justice Andrew Smith, dated 23rd May 2008, filed 13th June 2008.
A3/2008/1404 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & ors. Appeal of Defendant from the order of Mr Justice Andrew Smith, dated 23rd May 2008, filed 13th June 2008.
A3/2008/1405 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & Otrs. Appeal of 5th Defendant from the order of Mr. Justice Andrew Smith, dated 23rd May 2008, filed 13th June 2008.
A3/2008/1407 Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & Otrs. Appeal of 7th Defendant from the order of Mr.Justice Andrew Smith, dated 23rd May 2008, filed 13th June 2008.

[Amethyst]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Umm the Claimant is the OFT ? Who;s the 4th Defendant ? HBOS ?

That doesn't sound great does it.

[natweststaffmember]

4th defendant is HBOS

Ooops apologies for that.

[Amethyst]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Okay in the orginal judgment by justice smith HBOS were turned down to appeal on the PIL judgment - so that could be point 3 ??

Para 220 of original judgement -

1. I conclude that HBOS's terms are not in plain intelligible language in this respect and only in this respect

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2008/875.html

A3/2008/1406(Y) Office of Fair Trading -v- Abbey National Plc & ors. Application of 4th Defendant for renewal of lower court part refusal of permission to appeal.

Appeal hearing transcripts here (Legal Beagles)

things just got more interesting

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

What concerns me is the reference to the 'claimants' application to appeal as this must be the OFT as they referred to the ''4th defendant'' which must be a bank.

Just spoke to Ian - he's on the case.

[borgbaiter]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

doesnt sound at all good

[Budgie]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Speculation is a waste of time.

Let's wait till we get the facts.

An application to appeal a judgment cannot be heard before that judgment has been handed down. Please just use a bit of common sense.

Budgie

[showergirl]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Doesn't look too good for us

[ROBSTER]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Is it too late for the OFT to appeal the statements re penalties on T&C s (historic or other)?

That could be good.

Bud s right we will be put out of our misary by this time tomorrow.

I'll be having a cheeky beer no matter which way it goes... 99p a pint! god bless JDW.