Removal of property

[Usedasamug]

Hi! I'm new on here & am hoping someone can give me some advice. I bought a caravan a while ago for my friend to use/stay in on the land of my rented property. This was on the understanding he would pay me back but never did. Due to various reasons I asked him to leave. He has told me he will be collecting his stuff & caravan with police presence. I have no receipt etc for the caravan purchase but have recent text msgs asking if he can take it & saying he will pay me the money for it. Does he have a right to take it against my wishes?
Thank you

[2222]

You can reasonably refuse to let him take it until he has paid you. The text messages are reasonable proof that he acknowledges that he does not own the caravan.

Is this a caravan you want to want to be stuck with, though? If it's not very valuable, you might be better off shot of him, his stuff, and the caravan all in one go. Even if it is fairly valuable, do you really want him to be without a roof over his head in winter?

[2222]

By the way, I see from your username that you think you have been taken advantage of. You probably have. But, bear in mind that your former friend is probably completely hopeless, and maybe this is the time for a bit of charity on your part.

[Usedasamug]

Thanks for your input 2222. I have done nothing but give him charity for the past year. I am a single parent with 3 children & am now protecting them from the drug & alcohol abuse he was bringing into my family. If keeping the caravan means I can give my eldest son somewhere to stay during college holidays & all of us breaks away then yes, it does mean more to me. He has places to go so this is just vindictiveness on his part. I just needed to know legally where I stood. Thank you.

[ostell]

If he hasn't paid for it then he cannot own it and has no rights to take it away. Inside now and take photos of the condition in case he seeks revenge. Outside photos as well.

[Usedasamug]

Thank you for that Ostell. I can't get inside atm as he has the key. He's asked for a police presence to keep the peace but I'm more of the opinion that he hopes he will get them to enforce his legal ownership which they are unable to do. I'm not an argumentative person & it's not me that will be breaking the peace so I believe intimidation is his only reason. I will take pics while the police are here so if any damage is done by him after he has left I will have the pics to show. Thank you.

[Setmefree3]

I can’t see the police getting involved, especially as you have text messages proving that he is willing to pay you for the caravan. If however they do turn up, explain his habits and how this has led to your actions of asking him to leave.

[des8]

A cautionary word for OP
The question to be settled is when was it intended that the property in the goods passed from usedasamug to the one time friend.

The statement " I bought a caravan a while ago for my friend to use/stay in on the land of my rented property. This was on the understanding he would pay me back " could be construed that the van was purchased for the friend with intention of delayed repayment.
This does not mean that non payment voids the transfer of property, but only that payment is outstanding.

If usedasamug is not circumspect she may end up having to sue for her money, which will not be a good outcome as the erstwhile friend apparently has few if any assets.
She will need to show that the passing of the property was conditional on the payment of purchase price by erstwhile friend

cf Sale of Goods Act 1979:
17Property passes when intended to pass.

(1)Where there is a contract for the sale of specific or ascertained goods the property in them is transferred to the buyer at such time as the parties to the contract intend it to be transferred.

(2)For the purpose of ascertaining the intention of the parties regard shall be had to the terms of the contract, the conduct of the parties and the circumstances of the case.

[Usedasamug]

Thank you Setmefree3. I have plenty of evidence showing what's been going on but I'm not a vindictive person so would rather not have to go down that route unless I'm forced to. The police will be in attendance as I rang 101 when I got the text telling me & they confirmed it. He has a rather dodgy police officer friend who I'm sure has encouraged him to do all this. I will stand my ground for my family's sake & hopefully there'll be no repercussions Thank you

[Setmefree3]

A cautionary word for OP
The question to be settled is when was it intended that the property in the goods passed from usedasamug to the one time friend.

The statement " I bought a caravan a while ago for my friend to use/stay in on the land of my rented property. This was on the understanding he would pay me back " could be construed that the van was purchased for the friend with intention of delayed repayment.
This does not mean that non payment voids the transfer of property, but only that payment is outstanding.

If usedasamug is not circumspect she may end up having to sue for her money, which will not be a good outcome as the erstwhile friend apparently has few if any assets.
She will need to show that the passing of the property was conditional on the payment of purchase price by erstwhile friend

cf Sale of Goods Act 1979:
17Property passes when intended to pass.

(1)Where there is a contract for the sale of specific or ascertained goods the property in them is transferred to the buyer at such time as the parties to the contract intend it to be transferred.

(2)For the purpose of ascertaining the intention of the parties regard shall be had to the terms of the contract, the conduct of the parties and the circumstances of the case.

des8 would it make a difference that the OP has said the caravan was bought for the friend to use/stay whilst it was on the rented land.

[Usedasamug]

Thank you des8. Whilst I understand what you are saying, I have been waiting for payment for about 8 months but now don't believe there was ever any intention of paying me back. I try to help people the best I can in their time of need & that has been my aim all along but I won't put my family in a situation where they are being used & dragged into his damaging lifestyle. Surely it should be him trying to prove its his & his right to remove it when I have proof that I paid for it & it's within my property grounds? What right does he have if he turns up with the money to pay for it? Thanks

[2222]

If he turns up with the money, for goodness sake let him buy it! You can always buy another one.

You mention, in post 1, text messages from him offering to pay for it so he can take it away. I think that's an admission from him that he does not yet own it, despite the point Des raised. Perhaps you could post a couple of the texts here please. You know the guy, do you think it likely that he will raise Des's point?

[Setmefree3]

2222 from what I’m reading, I think it’s more of a case that through kindness the OP opened up her family life to help the friend out in a time of need. Unfortunately her friend has a drink and drug problem, which let the OP to protect her family and ask her friend to leave. For the record I would have done the same on the basis that my children’s welfare would come first.

[2222]

2222 from what I’m reading, I think it’s more of a case that through kindness the OP opened up her family life to help the friend out in a time of need. Unfortunately her friend has a drink and drug problem, which let the OP to protect her family and ask her friend to leave. For the record I would have done the same on the basis that my children’s welfare would come first.

I entirely agree with all that, and I agree with her that she has been more charitable than nearly anyone else would be. The question is what she should do now, so as to stay on the right side of the law?

I suspect that when she sees inside the caravan she'll be less keen to keep it.

[Usedasamug]

Obviously if there is any doubt over ownership that will cause continual upset to my family & he hands over the money tomorrow, when it's all supposed to happen, then I will let him take it just to see it all over. Unfortunately he is the sort of person who will look up laws etc just to get what he wants & will never be proven wrong. The inside of the caravan is a dump, yes, but with a clean up will be habitable again. All I can do now really is wait & see what happens tomorrow. Thank you all for your input & help. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks