OFT Test Case - as it happens

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

No probs Smutly and good to have you over here

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Amazing that after all the hullabaloo about the few public places and only 20 people show up and most of those were not even members of the public. All the bo''cks cag were spouting about the lack of space and there letter writing campaign to MPs and not ONE of there 160000 members could actually be arsed to attend

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I'm gonna write up the rest in the morning. I'm too tired now. It dosn't start to 11.00 tomorrow so I'll get a pass at 8.00 and type and post the rest from the bunker before it starts.

It was easy to get in and not all the feed room places were taken.

[smutley]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

sincere appreciation on the case reporting..... its like we were there with you! thanks for your hard work and hope you get a good nights rest

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Tom, Stephen & Phil outside the IDRC and out to lunch, & The Bunker

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

It’s showtime

Queens Counsel for the Royal Bank of Scotland Laurence began by setting out the background to the case. He talked of ‘’the torrent of claims’’ thatthe banks had faced and ‘’the deluge’’ on the Financial Ombudsman Service.

He said that the issues of the relevance of UTTCR and Common Law need to be settled and it was appropriate for the Office of Fair Trading was involved. However he was less certain about the OFT’s views on their findings in the April 2006 investigation into credit card default charges that there was cross-over to current accounts. These he described as ‘’ill judged comments’’. The judge interrupted, ‘’this doesn’t affect the case’’. The QC paused briefly and continued. ‘’a hornet’s nest has been stirred’’.

Rabinowtz turned to his submission telling the judge that none of the witneses who had given statements to the banks case would be cross examined. There was then an interruption from a distant bank’s QC, Milligan, who complained of ‘’the amplification not working’’ and not being able to hear the judge’s microphone. ‘’I believe Mr Milligan is having trouble with me’’ the judge said. ‘’perhaps the beginning of a stream?’’. Although said tongue in cheek it must have sent a little bit of a shudder down the QC’s back.

During the next part of his submission the QC recommended to the judge that the volume of historical trems & conditions was such that for the judge to consider all of them in detail would be......

More in a bit if I'm still conscious....

[Lizzie47]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Thanks EXC and Celestine
Just what we wanted ALL the detail..:okay: ill be logging in for updates..

[Bantambec]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

well done folks excellent work

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Very interesting summation Kate, will you be attending tomorrow mornings proceedings?

[Celestine]

Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Apologies for not posting sooner.....its been a very busy day!

I arrived at the bunker shortly after 12. It was a great set up, even if it did look like there had been a stampede in there. Lap tops, clothes and coffee cups everywhere!

EXC, Tom Brennan, Phil and Stephen arrived shortly after one. We ordered lunch and discussed the events of the morning.

The overall impression is that we have a GOOD JUDGE! He wasn't at all overwhelmed by the vast array of legal elite representing the banks. He questioned and queried many points made and seemed to be interested in being absolutely scrupulous and fair in his interpretation of the points made to him.

It was nice to meet Stephen at long last, we had spoken before and had many a MSN chat, but it is always good to put a face to a character. Tom was also very charming and extremely bright. We all had a very enjoyable hour long chat about the case, our thoughts for the outcome and of course and also the various websites involved in the campaign against these charges.

Sadly I think we all agreed that the likely outcome will be a lengthy appeals process, so I feel a fresh assault on the FSA's waiver will be urgently required.

I walked down to the court with Stephen, Tom and Phil. They all decided that as the afternoon was likely to be entirely comprised of RBS's Laurence Rabinowitz putting his defence across, that they would head home and try and make up for their total lack of sleep!

I headed in to the court and took my seat at the back of the feed room. The room was 2/3 full, seemingly mainly with lawyers rather than journalists. Evidently, the media had their fun with Oystar earlier in the day! A dancing horse will always do better than 'dry legal argument'!

The feed room was quite small with two flat screens displaying a view of Mr Justice Andrew Smith and a second view of the court room.

Laurence Rabinowitz was working slowly through the RBS defence mainly trying to explain that a 'penalty' charge is effectively a part of the 'price' of a service or goods. There was a major discussion based around: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/j...arlingtons.htm

Mr Justice Smith queried many points made by Mr Rabinowitz. At times he seemed utterly unconvinced of Mr Rabinowitz interpretations and interjected many times to request clarification. He also frequently offered an alternative analysis to a given scenario. He also disagreed when Mr Rabinowitz said that the OFT's interpretation of the implication of Bairstowe v Darlingtons was 'mangled' However the atmosphere was surprisingly light and at times even humorous. Both Justice Smith and Mr Rabinowitz have a sense of humour and used it often during their dialogue.

During the afternoon break, I got chatting with a lady sitting near me. After a few moments discussing who was who and the case, I asked where she was from and got a jolt when she said the BBA! She asked me where I was from, I said Legal Beagles and was rather amused to discover she knew all about us.

It was interesting and satisfying to have attended and seen the proceedings at close hand. I feel quietly confident that Justice Smith will be fair and meticulous in his hearing of the case. It is already widely believed that the case will now take several weeks as opposed to eight days. RBS are arguing first and longest, the others will follow on, presenting their own clients individual arguments, layering those on top of all defence arguments that precede them. In theory the banks toward the end of the queue will take less time than RBS who are scheduled to take 2 days.

The OFTs section of the case will be the next highlight.

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

After a change of clothes and coffee at the plush and well lit Legal Beagles bunker we arrived back at the venue. Outside the IDRC was the band doing a live performance of I Fought The Bank watched by a clutch of TV cameras and some slightly confused passers by.

The Scene

The Retirement room had 25 chairs in rows of 5 facing two large flat screen TV’s. It was difficult to say who the other attendees were or what interest they had in the case. Although it was apparent that one was from the Daily Mirror, a lady from A&L.s solicitors and a presenter from Channel 4 News. None of the others seemed to be either from the media or campaign groups.

A court attendent explained the basic procedure and hovered around reminding everyone, countless times, to switch off there mobiles. During the. half hour wait for the show to start there were scenes of lawyers settling into there places in the courtroom. Some were having animated discussions but unfortunately the sound was switched off until the procceedings began. Shame.

The left hand screen was focused on Judge Andrew Smith and the right on the banks legal teams. The courtroom was laid out in rows of tables almost like a school room and the walls were dominated by shelves from floor to ceiling neatly stacked with arch files containing the acres of court bundles. How on earth the judge read it all in two days I’ll never know. the hearing was located next door but one from our feed room.

The Cast.

Judge Andrew Smith bore a fair resemblence to snooker player Dennis Taylor without the glasses. He, on occasion, had a mild stutter. The banks legal teams of which there were 6 per bank comprised of a fair amount of women. Most sat in front of laptops. The opening submission was made by the QC for RBS and next to him sat Nat west’s QC Ben Pilling, a man with rodent like features and a reputation to match. He represented Nat West against both Stephen Hone and Tom Brennan and was described by a certain barrister in the feed room as ‘’smarmy’’.

The show

At 10.30 sharp the court clerk said ‘’rise’ and everyone stood briefly, bowed, and sat down. The judge started with an apology to all present for the day’s delay to the start of the case, due to the jury still sitting on his criminal trial in Chester involving 3 ‘’youngsters’’. and went on to apologise in advance for having to return sometime in the next 10 days for sentencing.

The RBS QC then stood directly in front of the judge, behind two boxes to begin his submission.


To be continued…

[Amethyst]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens



pmsl oh dear

[Amethyst]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Hearing tomorrow will commence at 11am

Abbey Nationals turn

[Amethyst]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Future Of High Street Banking In Balance In High Court |Sky News|Business

[Amethyst]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Banks blame OFT for 'torrent of refund claims' - Legal Beagles