OFT Test Case - as it happens

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

a few points from the above.
1) Sometimes although the judge may seem to favour one side or the other, it may not be the result we expect. Totally agree there Nattie mate.
2) If the OFT wins there is already mechanisms in place for the next phase of banking. And it wont break the bank lol
3) I am surprised that apart from Penalty Charges and Legal Beagles that no other site as of yesterday had gone to the court, OR more importantly, made enquiries about how to get into the OFT test case to report.
I am not blowing the Beagles trumpet but you have hot air and you have action. Partly agree here, but it is not always possible to get away from other commitments (Penalty Action Group) discussed it but it and really wanted to , but so far not been able to as yet. It is still early days though so this could poss change. But I get your point.

I have just had another thought, if the OFT do win will the banks appeal and appeal the removal of stays? I think it would be a fruitless attempt. Afterall they have had it benefitting them for to long already it would only be fair that the tables were turned in our favour. I may be wrong.

Tanz

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

To add to this OFT myth, RBS Group were not saying that before the Report on charges, what they were saying was media coverage of the Stephen Hone case was the cause.

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Budgie on point 1, what I was saying is that sometimes your perspective may not necessarily be as it is perceived. I think before the trial began that the service argument was a compelling one on some charges, but rabinowitz has stated that it is part of the whole package of the current account. It will be interesting how other QC's go forward from this standpoint or if they differ in interpretation or should I say presentation.

[scoobydoo]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I agree with Nattie

We all know we are not going to influence the decision now - however sure this is the culmination of a huge amount of public pressure and hopefully some sort of justification for all those members of the public who had to endure the stress of taking their case to court. Surely they will be interested in the proceedings. Also an understanding of the case as it unfolds I think would be preparation for whatever action is needed when the result is known. Better from the "horses" mouth than some media reports. Personally in the end I think we all know the banks are capable of recouping any losses if it does not go their way in changing the charging structure , however personally I would rather see a system that is fairer to all and does not penalise the most needy - and is clearer - so we can vote with our feet.
With regard to the comment about the OFT causing the amount of claims - I hope the answer was that the banks only had to successfully defend one case and it would all have gone away?

Look forward to todays news!

Any pictures of our roving reporter EXC to post up - Want to see what the criminal on the run looks like!

Jan

[Budgie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Hi Nattie

1) Sometimes although the judge may seem to favour one side or the other, it may not be the result we expect.

Although we could expect "playing to the gallery" from a County Court Judge, i doubt that a Judge of the calibre of this one would indulge in that sort of antic.

2) If the OFT wins there is already mechanisms in place for the next phase of banking.

Agreed, Am sure the Banks have detailed secret plans for their revised charging systems all ready to go when they lose the test case.

3) I am surprised that apart from Penalty Charges and Legal Beagles that no other site as of yesterday had gone to the court, OR more importantly, made enquiries about how to get into the OFT test case to report.
I am not blowing the Beagles trumpet but you have hot air and you have action.

Thank goodness that LB peeps are there. Am sure that other sites will start to attend once we get to the nitty gritty stages. At the moment though it's great that the LB guys and gals are there to keep us all informed.

I have just had another thought, if the OFT do win will the banks appeal and appeal the removal of stays?

Bound too! But Judge will surely cover this possibilty in his recommendations

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

It was a very interesting and unusual day

I'll try my best to get today's courtroom capers written and posted up in the nexr 2 or 3 hours.

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

a few points from the above.
1) Sometimes although the judge may seem to favour one side or the other, it may not be the result we expect.
2) If the OFT wins there is already mechanisms in place for the next phase of banking.
3) I am surprised that apart from Penalty Charges and Legal Beagles that no other site as of yesterday had gone to the court, OR more importantly, made enquiries about how to get into the OFT test case to report.
I am not blowing the Beagles trumpet but you have hot air and you have action.

I have just had another thought, if the OFT do win will the banks appeal and appeal the removal of stays?

[Budgie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Totally agree Phoenix.

But let's get the result we want first and then worry about the repurcussions afterwards. I am sure that OFT are on cloud 9 at the moment with the initial tell tale indicators regarding the Judge's sympathies. There are bound to be some set backs for us over the next couple of weeks as the Banks let their big legal guns loose. However after re-reading the OFT's response to the Banks defence and conterclaim again this afternoon and hearing the latest updates from the LB guys and gals at the test case it's boosted my confidence no end. I for one will deffo try to be at the venue for the OFT's presentation in a couple of weeks time. I think it will be the event of the year, if not the decade and I want to be there to witness it for myself.

[thephoenix]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Errrrr isn't it more relevant that we consider that the Banks would not be losing their own money. THEY WOULD BE GIVING IS BACK OUR OWN MONEY - PLUS INTEREST.

I believe the UK economy would receive an unprecidented lift WHEN the OFT win. Consumers with money in their pockets usually spend it on things, thereby indirectly boosting the economy. The Banks will also have to rationalise their charging systems in line with whatever new regulations are forthcoming and an open playing field will develop, Customers will move accounts to Banks offering the fairest charging system.

Although this case is about a point of law, it will have an effect on the economic structure of the UK.
It's not just a case of bank losing money or banks actually refunding money that is not rightfully there's.
The charging structure, I believe has been around since banking began, or at least a very very long time therefore it's has always been a natural so called income generator for the banks, as we all know.

With the credit crunch worldwide and the test case, the banking infrastructure will lose hundreds of billions of pounds of revenue. Whether we believe they are losing it or having to pay it back, that is a fact.

Now as consumers we need to be protected from the institution that is already causing much hardship to many many people. They WILL try to re-coop losses, RBS are already in trouble on the stock market and I'm sure many others will follow. An income stream will soon disappear if (when) they lose this monumentus battle .

All I'm saying is the judge who is heading procedings is not scared to ensure the LAW is applied in it's correct manner, even if it means an uncertain future for many banks. The law is the law and if the courts will not uphold it then we are all in trouble.

Hopefully the OFT are drawing confidence from the judge in the hot seat and their closing statement in 2-3 weeks time, will dispense all concerns over the, so far smooth and talented QC delivering the defence for the RBS.

Long may the judge be strong and in control.

[Budgie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

ECONOMICAL STABILITY OF THIS COUNTRY MAY BE AFFECTED AS THE BANKS MAY LOSE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF POUNDS ON ONE JUDGMENT.

Errrrr isn't it more relevant that we consider that the Banks would not be losing their own money. THEY WOULD BE GIVING IS BACK OUR OWN MONEY - PLUS INTEREST.

I believe the UK economy would receive an unprecidented lift WHEN the OFT win. Consumers with money in their pockets usually spend it on things, thereby indirectly boosting the economy. The Banks will also have to rationalise their charging systems in line with whatever new regulations are forthcoming and an open playing field will develop, Customers will move accounts to Banks offering the fairest charging system.

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I am up in the City on Fridays and met up with EXC at lunchtime and went back to the LB bunker at the hotel. EXC convinced me to pop in to the test case even if it were for 30 minutes. It was so interesting I stayed 45 minutes and had to wrench myself away and get back to work before I was really missed.

It was easy enough to get a pass out of 25 seats for the public only half were
taken. The press seats were I could see from the screen were many empty seats. Strangley no press outside like there were yesterday.

I only stayed 45 minutes, but it was quite clear that the Judge has a strong hold on this case and will not be bullied by Mr Rabinowitz, Barrister for RBOS. there were times when everyone laughed and then it was straight back to business. This Mr Rabinowitz seems to be drawing this case out and I noticed the Judge on a few occasions told him to move on.

It appears that he said in the morning session that if the OFT win all bank claims that have been stayed would be lifted immediately. I draw comfort from this and only hope now that he agrees with the OFT.

The OFT will go last in these proceedings, I thought this was strange, but having asked I am told that it will give the OFT the advantage at the end to make the closing case and to squash the defence. I hope that this is right.

At the time I was there they were trying to define 'TERM' I did not really understand what they were referring to as they talked in legal jargin a lot of the time.

If anyone has the time to go I think that they would find it very interesting and very easy to get in and should not be deterred.

DSxx

[thephoenix]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Although this may sound like a bias statement, I do tend to look at events from all angles and from both sides.

I BELIEVE WE HAVE A JUDGE WHO IS NOT SCARED TO VIEW HIS OPINION OF LAW.
I KNOW THATS WHAT A JUDGE IS THERE TO DO BUT HISTORY HAS SHOWN THAT NOT ALL JUDGES HAVE THE SAME OPINION OF THE SAME LAW.
THE BANKING INDUSTRY AS WE KNOW IT COULD CHANGE CONSIDERABLY ON THE INTERPRETATION OF EVIDENCE AND APPLYING THIS TO COMMON LAW.
ECONOMICAL STABILITY OF THIS COUNTRY MAY BE AFFECTED AS THE BANKS MAY LOSE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF POUNDS ON ONE JUDGMENT.

LETS JUST HOPE THE JUDGE ALSO SEE'S FURTHER INTO THE FUTURE AND NOT JUST A JUDGMENT IN THIS CASE. BANKS HAVE THREATENED TO RE-COOP ANY LOSSES FROM PENALTY CHARGE BY WAY OF CHARGES FOR OTHER SO CALLED SERVICES AND WARN THE BANKS (SHOULD THEY LOSE) THAT RETALIATION WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.


Just my thought for the day. going for a lie down now. phewwww

[Budgie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Big news is judge wants to advise county courts on stays if OFT win the hearing so it could be lifted after judgement

Am getting to like this Judge more and more each day, and we're only on 2nd day. LOL

Thanks for info re passes EXC :okay:

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

just to answer a few points:

My comments re CAG were over the top they way they were put but the point remains.

Passes are easy to get. they are avaailable from IDRC reception at 8am on the day, the hearing starts at 10.30. Passes are all day.

Very exciting morning with lots of disagreement on how the case will continue so RBS has made know more progress on their submission.

Big news is judge wants to advise county courts on stays if OFT win the hearing so
it could be lifted after judgement

[Al59]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Fantastic work guys, Will be checking every day while I'm away