Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

There is a huge campaign on twitter, lets hope they sit up and listen!!

this should never have had to get so big, it's disgraceful tbh, they are dragging a grieving widow and her family to the Ombudsman and refusing to talk to the family, when they have been asked by a solicitor to speak to them to shorten this.

The more pressure on this lot to do the right thing the better!!

[Inca]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

To repeat what has been suggested above: surely it would make more sense to instead ask for a small donation from all who are sympathetic (which will go beyond those who have signed the petition) to be administered by the family solicitor or other if he/she is unwilling? In view of the huge sympathy and support, this would go way beyond the sum that would be due from the insurers. (ie 50,000 x a min £2.00 makes up the full sum payable according to reports and it should come to far more, particularly in view of the celebs, politicians etc. who have signed up).

By doing that you are asking the family to accept 'charity',.Why accept 'charity' in place of what is rightfully theirs?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Thing is though Inca, the suggested donations should already be paid by the insurers..

This, to me anyway, is now about reminding the companies that without the people paying premiums, there are no customers and no customers ultimately means no company.

Heaven forbid I would be in this place I wouldn't want donations, I would want the company I had trusted to help me to pay.

It's a horrific thing to happen, and to my mind we need to keep the pressure on, not for mob rule but for better service and a clear message that people will not sit back and allow this to happen

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Puffrose - They are not 'dragging a grieving widow to the Ombudsman' - they have already made their decision. The Ombudsman is there for the family if they want to pursue their case further by legitimate means. We should all expect a complaint to follow the due processes of justice first rather than a cyber-mob. I expect that if Nic's family had been told by their solicitor that they have a good case, they would have gone to the Ombudsman long ago, and this would be settled by now.

It's a free country but I would hope that anyone recommending this camapign has checked out whether it has taken reasonable steps to ensure its supporters act peacefully and within the law.

I have written to Friends Life as a Critical Illness customer asking them to ensure they have made an objective assessment of this case - but to hold firm against this intimidation.

[Inca]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Totally agree with you Puff,,they should pay up.

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Inca/Puffrose

Yes it would be charity - which in my book is something to give when I care about someone. However if what people really want is to just vent against a big company then campaign is the way to do it.

The money is only 'rightfully theirs' if there was a legitimate contract. Friends Life say it was voidable - and from the evidence any of us have seen I would have to agree with them. But that is a matter of legality - and you won't solve that without a legal opinion. So far we haven't had one because the family seem to have been told to avoid that.

As for the point about customers - it works the other way too, you won't have any company if you pay out all your customers money on claims that have no legal basis but the backing of the twitterati. Above all an insurer has a fiduciary duty - and paying out on such a basis would contravene that.

On a more practical level, I can tell you that the number of customers that would need to cancel to have any appreciable financial effect would be a different order of magnitude to the numbers supporting this campaign.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

So do half of twitter it seems

I see this as people power, not intimidation at all Charlie, or mob rule.

I actually see it as the positive power of the Internet, similar happened when a schoolgirl on Pakistan was shot in the head, and when a single mam was portrayed as lazy by the BBC.. So why not highlight a case of a family being betrayed by a company?

Once again I repeat, without customers there is no business...

[MissFM]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

A few points:

- if you haven't already (and I'm sure you all will have) have a look at this:

issue 61 - nsurance case studies – non-disclosure, reckless or inadvertent? sorry that's on the FOS website - will post full address up separately as can't manage to do it on this post for some reason

- Unless there is something not in the public eye, the FOS will surely find for Nic Hughes. (Which does beg the question - why haven't FL paid up so far? It would be much easier for them)

- Another question - did FL "cancel" or "avoid" the policy (in which case my understanding is that they should have already repaid all premiums)- there's also loads of stuff on the FOS website showing different compromises/settlements the FOS might recommend - including compensation/interest etc. if they find for the family. And many degrees in between.

- It seems inconsistent that one of the complaints against FL is that they were originally a charitable faith-based organization and are now a business, yet it is also being said that there is an issue about whether any fund set up for the family (and some sort of foundation in Nic's name beyond) would be acceptable or considered an insult as being "charitable"

- the "fund" idea would be a bridging arrangement to relieve pressure on the family. Grief can affect judgment and I personally do wonder whether the family, had they had time to grieve and reflect, really would want to be thrust in the limelight in this way as the campaign careers along. If and when the FOS finds that FL should honour the agreement (and FL have said that, not only have they asked the FOS to fast-track this case, but that they will abide by any decisions made by the FOS - they can't go back on that), the family has many options as to what to do with the sum of whatever comes from FL and the interim fund.

- I wish, I wish, I wish that the petition headline was worded differently. The way it comes across (pay up or else...) makes it more or less impossible for FL to make any compromise if they believe (as they clearly do) that they are legally correct in their actions.

- I had to look up "Fiduciary" (thanks a bunch Charlie!) but it is very clear that FL have a serious duty to their shareholders to behave in a certain way and must obey the law in their dealings; they will be open to censure from some quarter whatever they do. Please don't think I am an apologist for FL but there is IMHO no chance now, thanks to the publicity and the wording of the petition, for them to do anything other than follow legal guidelines slavishly.

- Bear in mind that there will be people - probably quite junior and blameless employees - who will quite possibly lose their livelihoods over this.

However much sympathy and outrage there is (and believe me I share it and would be so happy to put money where mouth is if there were a way to make it count) this really isn't as black and white as is made out.

And however idealistic and caring other people feel is it really fair to a newly grieving family to thrust them at the arrowhead of a publicity campaign?

In the spirit of truth and goodwill.

[MissFM]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...-insurance.htm

[Inca]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I can't won't and never will accept that a 'non diagnosis' is reason to not pay out an insurance.We've already thrashed the MS argument out and ,without sounding condescending or rude,anyone who thinks that the reasons FL are trying to declare the policy void are valid better hope and pray nothing happens to them where they know they are not going to live long enough to sort it out,and by dying they are going to leave their family ,when they pop off to the promised land,up crap creek without a paddle all because they mentioned they had 'pins and needles' to the Dr,,and even that Dr has come out in defence of the family. I wonder how FL's members would vote if they had the choice?
I have read all the articles,seen both sides of the argument and nothing has changed,,it still stinks

[MissFM]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Dear Inca - there was no offence intended and certainly didn't mean what you seem to have inferred from my last post. If it's of any relevance, I am personally "uninsurable" on that sort of policy (not because of MS) although I believe we have an en-masse family life insurance policy which is heavily weighted due to (again not MS) issues with me (and it may have been cancelled - not sure) so this really isn't an I'm-alright-Jack attitude. I am trying to be straightforward and honest in expressing views according to my understanding (and conscience!) and really do not mean to offend anyone - quite the opposite.

Question - is MS the reason that the policy was cancelled? Did Nic have MS - can't find that written anywhere?

xxx

[Inca]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I wasn't referring to your post MissFM,,I'm just stating why I don't agree with FL's stance. And No,,Nic wasn't diagnosed with MS

[leclerc]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I haven't commented on this thread although having read the thread more or less I think I will. If the last update is to be believed the Insurer is dragging the claimant to the FOS and yet I suspect that they are not.

My guess is that there is a win win situation for the family.

Scenario 1: The policy was missold(effectively) or should not have been sold so the solution is refund of premiums plus interest.

Scenario 2: the family's case is found to have merit and the insurer pays out to the family.

Is there a Scenario 3: The insurer sold the policy correctly and the family have no right to premiums and/or redress?

I will leave that last scenario hanging in the air but clearly the anger is about the fact that the person towards the end of their life had to fight the insurance company rather than enjoy the last moments of life.

I recall quite some time ago when my father passed away and we felt that the hospital had mislead us and that their treatment had lead to his death. We continued to fight on after the fact for about 3 months. It was in fact a family friend that said to let it go because it would not bring him back. I am not saying that the family should not fight but if the insurer has given its final response then banging your head against their head office door will do not good. Time to let the ombudsman decide and if they fall on the side of the insurer then they will have adequate legal back up to fight the case on. Ultimately, it will never bring the person back nor give them back their months that were lost fighting it whilst alive. That may sound harsh but from reading the thread the FOS needs to be dealt with otherwise the posturing will lead to the claim being ineligble to go to the FOS since the clock has already started when they received their final response.

[MissFM]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Thanks Inca - I don't think anyone believes that FL are ethically right but it is the legalities that are in question. Although the rest of us can react emotionally financial institutions have to obey the law. FL do appear to have a major conflict of interest. Please don't get angry with me - but have you looked at that FOS page? It would seem that the family's best redress lies there (with the FOS).

And please don't think for one moment that there is any question of dismissing the challenges of MS - but why is MS featuring so prominently in the arguments here if Nic didn't have it? Or is that at the root of the "pins and needles" question? I just don't understand, genuinely don't understand, what is being argued.

Sorry if I'm being thick, but there is obviously something here I'm just not grasping - is there something you know that is not generally known?

[MissFM]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

One more (purely legal) question:

All this publicity would be considered prejudicial to a fair trial in a court of law - would that be applicable to the FOS or not?