*** STRUCK OUT ** Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Sorry for the questions.... If that IOU is from your mum, could it have been a kind of runnning total of things he's bought for her for her to pay him back ( eg including the washing machine ) so could there be a way to get him to breakdown what the £500 odd in that IOU is owed for ?

[modder]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Oh goodness, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this on top of everything else.

I'm going to tag @Peridot to have a look regarding the Caveat he appears to have placed. She probably won't get to look till Monday though. Presumably he's done that so you can't distribute her estate ( of which there was nothing ? bar the belongings ) until this is sorted. It doesn't mention the pension at all so that's good, and makes him seem a bit more genuine?

The cardboard scrap £580 - is that your Mum's writing, and signature ?

Did he actually live with your Mum or just a regular visitor ? ie. why is he doing his washing in the bath if he didn't live with her and it was her washing machine? Did he get her to do his washing?

Do you still have the bits and bobs he's talking about from when the house was cleared ? ( the photos / coat / demijohns/ goose thing ? ) Sounds like more of an emotional attachment to things than a financial thing for him.

The Washing Machine £229 and this £580 seem to be the main bit of the claim amount. Not sure how he's reached £1056.

Not sure what a kingfisher has to do with being partially sighted - water sounds ? or something ... no idea.

Her house was rented ? ( council ? )

Have you had any discussion with / contact from Kent Police ?

Anyway, you will need to do a defence so will have to look at that, and whether he does actually have any grounds for a claim.

You have to feel a bit sorry for him but I suspect it's getting quite tiring to deal with.

Yes he paints a sympathetic picture but it's far from the reality of the situation. Her neighbour upon clearing told me that my had given her key documents to hold as she feared something was astray.

The cardboard looks to be signed.

They had a brief relation but mum would always state that he is the mule in the arranegement. And no one moved in with the other as it was the case. Their relationship was long over and more a mutual beneficial arrangement.

The washing machine he has some proof to say he purchased it in the form of a receipt. But mum would had given him the money to do so is my beleief.

Regarding the emotional bits I have no recollection of these. We left a lot of items bagged and outside the property which we later found were ransacked and practicallly taken in full. They done us a favour. I would imagine he returned to check the bags and recovered most of what was reffered to.

I am at a loss how he came to that figure too.

Mum lived in a housing association property and I have not heard from any police only a what he refers to fromna care worker when the iron was hot so I let rip.

I could really do with some grounds in what to reply with to try and foil the plot.

[modder]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Yes the circumstances of her death were bizarre. She was found with her head wedged between the bars of her headboard. Although the officer states that she could had fallen in this position things don't add up. The claimant kept on referring and making a point on repeated conversation to a pizza he had brought her the day before only one slice was eaten when which I threw away when clearing the property.

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Sorry for the questions.... If that IOU is from your mum, could it have been a kind of runnning total of things he's bought for her for her to pay him back ( eg including the washing machine ) so could there be a way to get him to breakdown what the £500 odd in that IOU is owed for ?

Moving forward I can ask for clarification on this fact. I presume the interest part is the difference.

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Okay, as Kati says first thing is the acknowledge the claim, did you get the response pack with the claim form ? It is just a case of ticking the Intend to Defend in Full box on there and returning it to the court. Keep the Defence document back and you can complete that later. The Acknowledgement extends the time you have to respond to the claim to 28 days from service xxx

[modder]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Sorry for the questions.... If that IOU is from your mum, could it have been a kind of runnning total of things he's bought for her for her to pay him back ( eg including the washing machine ) so could there be a way to get him to breakdown what the £500 odd in that IOU is owed for ?

Have you acknowledged the claim @modder?? If not you might as well get that bit out of the way (tick to defend in full, but don't enter a defence as yet) xx

Not as yet I just received these today. I have to start the ball rolling with a defence of which I'm unsure how to tackle.

[modder]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Okay, as Kati says first thing is the acknowledge the claim, did you get the response pack with the claim form ? It is just a case of ticking the Intend to Defend in Full box on there and returning it to the court. Keep the Defence document back and you can complete that later. The Acknowledgement extends the time you have to respond to the claim to 28 days from service xxx

Yes thank you a form is enclosed. I will read through again and respond as suggested. To clarify I would only need to send back a blank defence indicating my intentions to defend by ticking the relevant box?
Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

You have 28 days to sort out your defence so there's no massive rush. It is Friday night so people will be in and out over the weekend and give you their thoughts. You should just get the claim acknowledged for now ( you do ctually have 14 days to do that so it can wait for Monday )

There was no Will and no surviving spouse, so your mums estate would pass through intestacy rules to her Children. The estate seems to just be made up of her pension, furniture/white goods and the personal possessions.

This guy is a friend of your Mum and has placed a caveat over the estate, and is claiming some of her belongings belong to him. Some seem to have been given to her as gifts ( which make them hers not his, and thus pass with her estate )

So really it's whether she was looking after the washing machine for him ( unlikely ) and whether the IOU could be found to be legally binding. There's no date or reason given on it but appears to have been signed by your Mum. Someone might know the contract law bits behind IOU's, I'm sure there's case law surrounding things like this though and will have a look over weekend.

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Yes thank you a form is enclosed. I will read through again and respond as suggested. To clarify I would only need to send back a blank defence indicating my intentions to defend by ticking the relevant box?
Thanks

Yes this form - http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/media/do...kofService.PNG ( ignore the bits filled in on that it's just an example )

Just fill in your details there and tick option 1, and send just that to the court named on the claim form.

[modder]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

You have 28 days to sort out your defence so there's no massive rush. It is Friday night so people will be in and out over the weekend and give you their thoughts. You should just get the claim acknowledged for now ( you do ctually have 14 days to do that so it can wait for Monday )

There was no Will and no surviving spouse, so your mums estate would pass through intestacy rules to her Children. The estate seems to just be made up of her pension, furniture/white goods and the personal possessions.

This guy is a friend of your Mum and has placed a caveat over the estate, and is claiming some of her belongings belong to him. Some seem to have been given to her as gifts ( which make them hers not his, and thus pass with her estate )

So really it's whether she was looking after the washing machine for him ( unlikely ) and whether the IOU could be found to be legally binding. There's no date or reason given on it but appears to have been signed by your Mum. Someone might know the contract law bits behind IOU's, I'm sure there's case law surrounding things like this though and will have a look over weekend.

We are ever so grateful for your and everyone's feedback and advise regarding this matter. I will send of the intent to defend on Monday via email and post to get the process started.

In the meantime guy's please feel free to comment so I can gain some further understanding into my predicament all angles welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes this form - http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/media/do...kofService.PNG ( ignore the bits filled in on that it's just an example )

Just fill in your details there and tick option 1, and send just that to the court named on the claim form.

Perfect. That's the exact form so will action on Monday thanks again.

[modder]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

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Okay, the Police changed the locks following your Mums death - did the claimant have a set of keys to the property before then ? ( Sorry, were the locks changed because they had to be, or on request to stop claimant accessing property ? )

Yes he was in the frame and had keys to the property. So it was requested by the police. They cleared him quickly on the grounds he was a bit loopy and such. Something don't gel but the otopsy is conclusive nonetheless.

[Crazy council]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

The same person who wrote the clim, wrote the note,

examptes 'ov' Y,'T,£,D,S'

check the signiture, if people trace one, they dont oftern, vary the presure on differnt strokes ( if its the same )

Dont know if it makes any difference, just pointing it out

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Indeed I think the signature will be the important part. The actual promise can be in any hand ( or typed, but that's tricky on scraps of cardboard ) but the signature need to be in the hand of the promiser.

The washing machine receipt - has it the date on and does that date correspond to a similar sum leaving her bank account ?

[modder]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Indeed I think the signature will be the important part. The actual promise can be in any hand ( or typed, but that's tricky on scraps of cardboard ) but the signature need to be in the hand of the promiser.

The washing machine receipt - has it the date on and does that date correspond to a similar sum leaving her bank account ?

Looking at the scrap IOU note the surname was mispelt and the signature looks like an attempt to replicate. I am comparing with her signed bank card and it has vague resemblances. Plus as you guys state it's not dated.

I will troll through the statements again but if memory serves I never saw such a sum leave her account. It was always cash withdrawals that stood out to me. Now who withdrew the cash is the real question.

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

You mentioned that your mum had carers, do you know what company this was and have you contacted them to see what they know about the purchase of the washing machine and the alleged loan agreement your mum was suppose to have with this individual? It's amazing how much carers overhear and know about their clients! If they can dispute the claims the individual is making they might be willing to write a supporting statement which could be very helpful to you.

It sounds like your mum had very little capital so it's extremely likely that your mum's care was arranged and possibly paid for social services. She would have had a care manger assigned to her in this case. Do you know who that was and if so give them a call as they also might have information regarding your mum's interaction with this individual

I work in Adult services for KCC within the Thanet office but I'm not within the Adult community team, I'm part of a different section but I'll happily offer any general advice I can but I can't give specific advice about an individual - you need to speak to the care manager regarding obtaining information.

The best number to call is 03000 416161 (office hours). 03000 419191 (out of office hours). These are the numbers for Adult social care and if you give them your mum's details they will be able to tell you if she had a care manager and if so their details etc.

I hope this helps - good luck xx

[jaguarsuk]

Re: Small Claim for Deceased Mother's alleged owed money

Firstly I'm not a solicitor, so someone with better contract law knowledge than me would need to confirm things.

I would say obtaining bank statements is a must if you don't already have them, the bank should be able to provide them although not in time to submit the defence I'd suspect and you'd be looking for the money leaving her bank for the Washing Machine.

The cardboard scrap bit will be interesting to hear about and extract from here is particularly interesting: http://www.a4id.org/wp-content/uploa...t-a-glance.pdf

"Many social arrangements do not amount to contracts because they are notintended to be legally binding. Equally, many domestic arrangements, such asbetween husband and wife, or between parent and child, lack force becausethe parties did not intend them to have legal consequences. In Balfour vBalfour [1919] 2 KB 571, a husband who worked abroad promised to pay anallowance of £30 per month to his wife, who was in England. The wife'sattempt to enforce this promise failed: the parties did not intend thearrangement to be legally binding. (Note that in addition, the wife had notprovided any consideration.)"

I would say that you could argue that the social situation of your mother and the claimant was such that the IOU was not an intention to create legal relations, so as such the IOU is unenforceable.

It's a really unfortunate situation, the claim form seems to be the scrawls of a crazy man, but the fact that he's been able to place a caveat and submit this claim makes me wary. Don't underestimate him, make sure you gather everything you need as I think he's a bit more with it than he'd like you to believe.