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Funeral Arrangement - Non agreement between brothers

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  • Funeral Arrangement - Non agreement between brothers

    Hello,

    My brother will not come to the table and agree my mother's funeral arrangements.

    I spoke with my mother's solicitor on Monday and told them that, under no circumstances, are they to take any instructions for my mother's funeral from a friend of my brother and that he, himself, must agree details with me either via the solicitor or the funeral director. I was quite explicit.

    I said to the solicitor that I would be more than happy to liaise with them as executors if he didn't wish to agree the details.

    I received an email from yesterday:-

    "I write further to previous correspondence in this matter and in particular to our recent telephone conversation of the 15 November 2021.

    I confirm that I have, this afternoon, met with your brother, to discuss the funeral arrangements for your Mother. Your Motherís Will states that she wishes to be cremated after a church service at [church specified] and that she wishes for her ashes to be placed with your Father. Your brother would like to follow your Motherís wishes and I see no reason why this should not take place as it is stated in the Will.

    I will contact the funeral director to make the arrangements as I trust you will not have any objections to your Motherís wishes.

    Yours sincerely"

    I absolutely have NO objection to my mother's wishes being followed but they are only the bare bones. I understand but am unclear whether this is countered anywhere in law but there is no legal obligation to follow any funeral wishes noted within a Will. Who agrees the detail?

    I feel that I need to caution the solicitor insofar as they appear to just be wishing to railroad the issue and ignoring the finer detail. What coffin, cars, music, flowers, private or public (I feel it should be private because of the very stressful occurrences leading up to my mother's passing.), etceteras.

    Advice on where I stand would be greatly appreciated as this is already a very stressful situation. I really need that funeral to be private family members only for my own sanity.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    des8 ostell Can you take a look and advise, many thanks.

    Comment


    • #3
      You are correct that funeral wishes expressed in the will are not binding upon the executor.

      However generally accepted that the legal representative (ie executor) has final responsibility and authority in these matters and it is his decision whether or not to take into account any input from the deceased's family.
      Usually they will, but if their is a difference of opinion in the family they will make the arrangements they think fit.

      I suggest you do your best to negotiate and compromise with your sibling

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you.

        Well I did send the solicitor a lovely letter explaining I know what my motherís wishes are after they sent me an email confirming they had met with my brother to discuss funeral arrangements and that those wishes were in her will.

        However, I explained that just knowing which church, to be cremated and laying to rest with my father does not constitute a complete funeral arrangement eg cars, flowers or donations, wake, etceteras.

        That was last Thursday afternoon. To date, I have not received a response and I feel that they are either ignoring me or excluding me.

        The funeral director stated to me that siblings have equal rights.

        How do I go from here? I am tempted to call but I fear my impatience (and to some extent, paranoia) may get the better of me.

        My brother and his Ďfriendsí had been saying to everyone including her GP that my mother did not wish to have anything more to do with me. Itís beyond hurtful. They are nothing short of evil.

        Do I need to get a solicitor involved myself to keep check on this solicitor? I have so many questions.

        At what point, do I engage a solicitor to contest the will if I donít know whether I have been written out. Not sure I mentioned this earlier and PC Internet connection is down at the moment but she made her last Will back in April and she couldnít remember making it as of August!!!

        So many worries.

        Comment


        • #5
          By the way, I think my brother doesnít want to talk to me because I think there has been skullduggery going on and that is his perfect opportunity to avoid me.

          He is still living at my Mumís! One of my questions in my email to the solicitor was whether she had asked him to vacate. Although she intimated last week that she has no legal right at the moment because she had no proof my Mum had passed, she said in her email that she had now looked at the Will regarding any funeral arrangements.

          Just makes me nervous and suspicious about the whole situation.

          I would dearly love to be arrange the details of my motherís funeral and whilst I would prefer to be attending to that, I also have other concerns and donít know when to raise them.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are a beneficiary of your mother's will you should be informed within three months of the grant of probate being made,
            although there is normally no reason why you should not be informed earlier.
            Until probate is granted the will remains a private document and the executor does not have to reveal its contents.

            You can place a standing search with probate registry (cost £3) so you will be informed when probate has been granted, and you can then obtain a copy from them https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate.

            If you have reason to believe the will is invalid due to e.g. coercion you can stop the grant of probate by entering a caveat (cost £3) at probate registry, which will give you the time to investigate.

            Perhaps you should consult a solicitor to properly discuss your options

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by des8 View Post
              If you are a beneficiary of your mother's will you should be informed within three months of the grant of probate being made,
              although there is normally no reason why you should not be informed earlier.
              Until probate is granted the will remains a private document and the executor does not have to reveal its contents.

              You can place a standing search with probate registry (cost £3) so you will be informed when probate has been granted, and you can then obtain a copy from them https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate.

              If you have reason to believe the will is invalid due to e.g. coercion you can stop the grant of probate by entering a caveat (cost £3) at probate registry, which will give you the time to investigate.

              Perhaps you should consult a solicitor to properly discuss your options
              Thank you for your prompt response.

              Should I just enter a search (I did see that option) and relax regarding probate then for now?

              Just received a call from the coroner and the interim report is back from the pathologist but they have sent toxicology samples off for testing. Would I be right in thinking that although the funeral can go ahead (they have confirmed this) that the actual death certificate and probate therefore will now be held up until the actual death certificate can be issued in some 3 - 4 months time?

              Comment


              • #8
                The plot has just thickened.

                Just had a visit from the Police as my brother has made an allegation of some kind of threat to him in an answerphone message. The Police have said that he is apparently in the process of obtaining a court order for what sounds like an injunction to prevent me contacting him yet the last answerphone message I left him was on the 6th November.

                It beggars belief. If you felt threatened by a message left on the 6th November why would you leave it 18 days before you report it? None of it makes sense.

                He has apparently claimed that he has a right to the property and that I have only been left £50000 out of the estate which makes me question how he would know that if the solicitor claims that they are not entitled to view the will until they have a copy of the death certificate.

                It's all beyond bizarre.

                Would I get notification of a court hearing if that is going to go ahead? Surely I have a right to put forward a case to defend any untrue allegations against my good character. Complete and utter madness.

                It's left me somewhat stunned and not really knowing whether to laugh or otherwise.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If the coroner has issued a Certificate of the Fact of Death ( an interim certificate) that certificate can be used to obtain a grant of probate

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PenmorfaDES




                    I'm sorry but I am struggling to align this with what I am experiencing! Would you mind putting this into my context for me please?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheBereaved1 View Post

                      I'm sorry but I am struggling to align this with what I am experiencing! Would you mind putting this into my context for me please?
                      Ignore the post from Penmorfades.
                      He is a troll who has a personal grudge against me and tries to discredit both me and the site by libelling me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re the answerphone message - was there a threat made?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheBereaved1 View Post

                          I'm sorry but I am struggling to align this with what I am experiencing! Would you mind putting this into my context for me please?
                          Response deleted
                          Last edited by TheBereaved1; 26th November 2021, 09:39:AM. Reason: Deleted due to replying to wrong post.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by des8 View Post

                            Ignore the post from Penmorfades.
                            He is a troll who has a personal grudge against me and tries to discredit both me and the site by libelling me
                            I was suspicious but wondered if it was you trying to give me some cryptic message but surely you would just PM me if you had something private you needed to say.

                            Pretty distasteful really as he may have a grudge against you but I am going through enough as it is to be trying to decipher stuff like that. As if I am not suffering enough. I still didn't rise to it though.
                            Last edited by TheBereaved1; 26th November 2021, 09:38:AM. Reason: Re-edit with DES8 tagged

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
                              Re the answerphone message - was there a threat made?
                              The Police said it could be perceived as a threat.

                              I left if for him 2 days before my mother died as I got 'inside information' (from another family member that didn't agree with how I was being treated and stopped from seeing my dying mother).

                              It went along the lines of this:-

                              "So you are going to deny me one last chance of seeing my dying mother? Very Christian of you. [Pause] Of course, I am being sarcastic.

                              [I or] We will deal with this once she has gone.

                              You are going to need all the help you can get.

                              We're going to have a lot of fun!"

                              Something along those lines.

                              Of course, there are detailed funeral arrangement still to organise which now look as though they are going to be ironed out on Monday with the solicitor and he is going to need all the help he can get because I was referring to all the stress that he is going to go through [and me of course] with all the legal fights that can going to happen and also the fact that for 60 years of his sorry life I think the only thing he did for himself was to wipe his own backside. My mother took care of that for the first few years of his life and then did everything else for him apart from the two or three jobs he managed to hold down (one working for the family business - that was easy to hold down). The other jobs he only lasted weeks before employers sussed out his inabilities and lack of comprehension. Apologies but I may as well be open.

                              Like anything, without context, the one sided written of verbal word can easily be misconstrued.

                              1(3)c of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 states,

                              "(3)Subsection (1) [F4or (1A)] does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it showsó

                              (c)that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable."

                              I think given the circumstances of not being allowed in to see my mother during the last 7 weeks of her life coupled with his negligent care of her that even if it was intended to be threatening then he got off pretty likely in my view.

                              One particular (not blood) relative was saying to me in text, that "if it was me, I would be kicking the door down". Whether they were trying to incite violence I have no idea but it's not my style.

                              Of particular concern to me today, is whether the solicitor is going to mug me on Monday. I have specifically stated that I do not one of my brother's friends involved in tending to my mother's funeral details when in fact I do not want ANY of them attending to her funeral details but what legal right do I have to put my foot down on that.

                              I wish the funeral to be a private affair especially as some of those attending may have been complicit in some kind of skullduggery against my mother, myself or my brother.

                              I only have until today to get a solicitor involved to attend on Monday if that is what I need.

                              I feel my mother's solicitor is overly forceful. She seems to be making decisions as executor with no reference to me at least. I also have a horrible feeling that she [or the practice she works for] may be acting on behalf of my brother in trying to obtain this injunction to prevent me speaking to him.

                              I do not see how any law can stop siblings from talking. The Police apparently told him that he should get a mediator involved. There's no chance of that. He hasn't the common decency to speak with me. I think he knows that I have asked the coroner to investigate whether his negligence played a part in her passing. I just cannot understand why with the doctor having noted her as having mental impairment requiring further tests and all the ancillary care people (who mentioned to me that they had concerns about my brother's involvement in my mother's care failed to raise any alarms).

                              If their firm were acting for my mother and brother and the will has a good chance of being contested by me if my brother has not got confused between percentages and pounds then surely this would be a conflict of interest, would it not?
                              Last edited by TheBereaved1; 26th November 2021, 13:57:PM. Reason: Couple of words changed for clarity

                              Comment

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