Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

This is quite an extraordinary and shocking example of someone's private advert appearing twice at different prices.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/audi/a1/used-audi-a1-1-4-tfsi-sport-3dr-coalville-fpa-201409157425594?logcode=p 15 Sep

£5,700 2011 Audi A1 1.4 TFSI Sport 3dr - 30000 miles - Reg GV11NYY

Front view from the same advert





Photos taken from Autotrader UK advert currently posted here


http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-car...9061?logcode=p 15 Sep

£11,250 2011 Audi A1 1.4 TFSI Sport 3dr - 30000 miles - Reg GV11NYY

The front view of the car from this advert - notice any similarity with the other advert ? Same car but more expensive than the scammer's version hacked in to a dealer's account.





Just for good measure it also appeared on another dealer's account on 4 September


http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Of course, if a buyer is seeking exactly this car to buy, unfortunately the seller's main competition is his own advert posted under a dealer's name at the same time and at a very significantly reduced price. The conundrum then is what value is a service that may actually be competing against you at half the price ? The site search system will give prominence to the very competitively priced doppelgänger. The service is worth whatever you pay for it. Of course the photos could appear on gumtree and Ebay as well, where this gang operates too.

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

dixie2013 - the sad and unfair truth is that the cheapest way for a bank to address fraud is to dump the loss on a customer. Of course they cannot do it in such a way that it becomes so widespread that it becomes a news story and the example I frequently quote about a short-lived payday loan company is a case in point. Their flimsy security procedures created headlines in all UK newspapers at the time and created uproar. The outcome was easily foreseen but they believed they could enforce loans against innocent victims with absolutely no evidence they took them out, in fact, quite the reverse. Actually there is a similar fraud doing the rounds in a similar vein in respect of ordering iPhones that are delivered by courier. It also appears to rely on a company trying to enforce a contract without any evidence that the victims ever entered in to it.

These frauds depends on restaurants, payday loan companies or banks having sloppy and lax procedures and then expect the victim to pick up the cost because they either couldn't be bothered to do their job properly or found that they could maximise profits by being lax. It's not a good, or indeed ethical, way to do business, and the risk is they'll come a cropper as the payday loan company did. Restaurants that get involved in the fraud I mentioned in my last post face the very real risk of being bankrupted if they receive claims from a room full of diners one night. I'm sure that everyone would tell the diners to swallow the loss but in the instance described, I would feel confident they would be able to successfully sue. I'm not legally trained but if, as a retailer you leave a client no option, and are using a payment system negligently wilfully or not, you are in serious trouble. The suggestion that it is a loss to the customer is misleading and an opinion too readily made by law enforcement when, if they can't do it, the Card Association has the facilities to determine what happened and who was at fault, which doesn't appear to be the customer.

Tell a restaurant that it could cost them £500,000 and the problem and risk will disappear. Anyone with half a brain could spell out what's going on.

[dixie2013]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

[QUOTE=dixie2013;464376]https://community.homeaway.com/message/75969

This particular group is in the monthly newsletters we receive from our uk authorities.the figure of 3500 victims, I'd estimate that figure now to be double,is the ongoing operation preventing a media blackout regarding our online car vehicle fraud as are now seeing daily press releases abt most frauds,harrods/concert tickets/c.v's/romance/holiday rental/bt/............ But as yet I have hardly seen the car ads fraud on ebay/gumtree/autotrader in the press/media?? Apart from the bbc attempting to cover the story[/QUOTE

thanks for posting the link from saturday boycie, its a shame the BBC can report that the fbi is looking for nicolea popoescu for a massive online car fraud in AMERICA??, when they know its happening in the uk but is not reported?, its a shame a rental company based overseas has had a national UK newspaper run not 1 but several stories on victims of holiday rentals?, but my eyes light up when i read this from the article:



" Is there no method of flagging up this type of unusual account activity? Maybe, if Barclays was held liable, it would be a bit more proactive,” he says. The campaign group says several victims have pursued the bank through the courts and have been reimbursed as a result, albeit without an admission of liability, and, in some cases, the victim has been made to sign a gagging order.Last year a group of Australian tourists decided to take out a class action against Barclays after paying thousands of dollars into accounts for bookings that didn’t exist. In the end, only two complainants pursued the bank. Each was refunded, according to legal firm Edwin Coe that represented the victims.


this firm was posted in an earlier thread, i would be amazed if this legal firm is not aware of the online car fraud victims based in the uk, i would also be amazed if the person currently running the homeaway story in our newspapers is also aware of the online car ads fraud?, i will try and get the answers to both tommorow, anyone who has an interest in this matter i urge todo the same !

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

Forgive me for going off at a slight tangent but I find this news story to reflect concerns I have about how fraud is dealt with both by banks and law enforcement in the UK. As much as it might be useful to have the part of law enforcement relating to financial fraud financed by banks inevitably it makes them adopt a worryingly bank friendly stance.

I appreciate that some news stories may purposely not include full details or not be totally accurate to avoid educating fraudsters, but even so I would expect them to make sense, otherwise the story gives a very different picture to someone with some idea of how these systems work. This wasn't my area of particular expertise within banking, but I consider that I know enough allied with common sense.

http://www.professionalsecurity.co.u...t-phone-scam/?

Let's establish from where the report originates according to the news story.

Katy Worobec, Director of Financial Fraud Action UK

…... and how is this fraud set up ?

The scam involves fraudsters, posing as bank staff, phoning restaurants claiming there is a problem with their card payments system. The restaurant is then told to redirect any card payments to a phone number provided by the fraudster.

To my simple and straightforward mind this would require the restaurant owner to reprogram his card readers to make contact with some other computer system controlled by the fraudster rather than their merchant trader facility operator, which would be no straightforward task as it would require both the restaurant's card reader and the computer to be able to 'talk' to each other. Of course if this were what happened the restaurant would not receive any payments and indeed the restaurant would soon dissolve in to chaos as no one managed to pay their bills.

Whether a restaurant could even reprogram their card readers is very doubtful and someone senior would have to do it. This next sentence gives a clue.

Restaurant owners are warned to stay vigilant as fraudsters are trying to target their customers

In the scenario originally suggested the loser would be the restaurant, so why would the risk relate to customers ?

Read on.

The restaurant is then told to redirect any card payments to a phone number provided by the fraudster.

We know that this can't be true because if the card were swiped it would go through without problem SO obviously the fraudster has, so it claims, managed to persuade the restaurant to introduce another step in to the card paying process, namely a phone call to the fraudster who impersonates the bank/card company.

Apart from anything else, whether wittingly or otherwise, if any retailer adopts a hybrid method of handling card payments, I would expect the risk and loss to be theirs. That would certainly make them a little more cautious, but the greater concern to me is how the story is phrased to make it appear that the restaurant/retailer has no responsibility. Of course this may not be the fault of the restaurant but of their staff, but they are responsible for their staff.

When the restaurant calls the phone number the fraudster asks to speak with the paying customer and then goes through their security questions. Once sufficient security details have been obtained from the customer, the fraudster will instruct the restaurant to put the transaction through.

What I presume happens is that, before even swiping your card, the customer is told that there is a problem and is then handed a phone to call someone who the restaurant states is the bank/card company, and in doing that the restaurant is in a mess. Firstly it hasn't swiped the customer's card and it has misrepresented who they are putting their customer in contact with, even if unwittingly. the customer presumably then has his transaction handled normally without problem after he has had his confidential details extracted by the fraudster. The issue then is that, not being a card fraud, the restaurant won't get a charge back, however it has, unwittingly or otherwise, enabled a fraud against one of their customers.

It confuses me in the circumstances why Action Fraud represent it as a risk to their customers when actually it is the, witting or unwitting, action of the restaurant that enables the fraud, performing a hybrid and unauthorised payment process, which actually puts the risk and cost fairly obviously at the door of the restaurant and, if this were stated, they might be more cautious.

I may come back to this as it's complex area with profound implications, bit it's always worth considering carefully new stories about fraud and looking through the smoke, because what you're told isn't always what's happened. I also have links to previous examples that may shed more light. I'm sure that in a previous example of a similar restaurant fraud the clients were having their cards double swiped and cloned using a similar story.

The concern is that Action Fraud will phrase a story in a manner that makes it appear a situation is wholly a risk to an individual when actually the risk is most likely down to the card company and/or their client. Of course, if you cannot understand the actual fraud itself and the implications, it puts you in a poor position to investigate it.:tinysmile_aha_t:

It irritates me that the customer/individual is taken to be the easiest dupe to take the loss by everyone, even when the responsibility lies elsewhere. From the Card Association website, in any such situation, the risk to the restaurant far outweighs any loss the customer may suffer, but it might be possible to fob the person off, especially if the police and card company act as one but reading from the Card Association website

http://www.theukcardsassociation.org...nce_PCIDSS.asp

If the environment is identified as a Common Point of Purchase (CPP) for fraud. (If you are suspected to have suffered a data compromise), you will be required to engage with a PCI Forensic Investigator (PFI) to establish the source of the breach to ensure any compliance gaps are closed.The cost of a forensic investigation can run into thousands of pounds You will be liable for these costs if evidence of a compromise is established .

There are considerable Card Scheme fines associated with non-compliance following a data compromise; these can range from ten to hundreds of thousands of pounds. Many non-compliant merchants have ceased trading because the fines could not be accommodated. The fines are passed from the Card Scheme to the acquirer and then onto the merchant.

I have no doubt that operating an unauthorised and hybrid procedure would fall within that definition and break the rules.

From the Action Fraud website itself (always good to quote from them) it states

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/new...t-owners-aug14

When the restaurant calls the phone number the fraudster asks to speak with the paying customer and then goes through their security questions. Once sufficient security details have been obtained from the customer, the fraudster will instruct the restaurant to put the transaction through.

So, wittingly or unwittingly, the restaurant makes speaking to a party identified to the customer as a bank official by the restaurant, a condition of accepting their card payment, it not already having been swiped. If it were explained to a restaurant in these terms, and they understood the implications, they'd never allow it to happen.

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

I strongly doubt it 'righty', though it is something I have seriously considered myself. If there were any likelihood then I would post them up along with the others, because I can evidence that the adverts are fraudulent. It surprises me how many large nationwide car dealerships can be so easily hacked and, of course, it does them no good to be as easily hacked as some very dubious dealerships.

The scammers don't have to be clever as they find hacking dealers/the site child's play. It amazes me that they haven't taken the dealers' bank accounts, but sooner or later they will. Perhaps they haven't figured out how to do it yet, but they will. It's ridiculously easy and would earn them in a day what they steal in a year. If they were even cleverer, with access to a large dealer's bank account, they could syphon off money over time that may not be detected for months.

The best scam deal last night was a £12,000 2012 Porsche Cayman. It actually sold for £54,995.

Obviously I don't want to mention anything that would be helpful to criminals and advise them how to do it, but the risk if dealers' log on to bogus sites is in no doubt as this news story demonstrates.

http://www.colerainetimes.co.uk/news...scam-1-6298215

14 September 2014

The caller then asks the user to log onto a site, which will give them remote access to their computer - enabling the caller access to bank details and personal information

That's what many hundreds of UK car dealers have done this year.

How would a dealer feel to think that a criminal who has hacked their computer now has remote access ? I doubt they have, but I wouldn't bet money on it. Equally I wouldn't bet my business on it.

Tonight (Sunday) the scammers appear to be just hacking AT UK car dealer web pages by the bucket load in an attempt to obfuscate the scams they're posting by simply deluging the site with ridiculously priced cars, so I can't ignore these purposeless hacks any more. I need to post copies so that I can know which I've spotted already. It's more work for me, but I have nothing but time on my hands.

Within a very short time of posting details of the hacked site with no scammer contact details, not only was it put right, but most of the rest of the fraudulent adverts were cleaned up. I was shocked as I didn't even realise they worked at the time of night.. It may have been a coincidence. I'll see.

[righty]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

As there's no scammer contact details is it remotely possible the dealer may have put up the ad as a come-on only to later claim (having created interest) their sites been hacked:beagle:

[righty]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

£7,500 for a 2010 Lexus is250:tinysmile_aha_t: I want one who should I contact Being a Lexus LS400 owner myself I have to say anyone who falls for that price really must dumb

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

Last night the Autotrader UK site was heavily filled with fraudulent adverts and dealer hacked pages to an extent that after four hacked dealer pages and many individual fraudulent adverts, there's not much point listing them all. A recent interesting phenomenon is hacked dealer pages with no scammer contact email or telephone number. I don't list them as they would take longer to evidence as fraudulent and they pose no risk to buyers, though I have no doubt that they are fraudulent. Quite why the scammers do it is open to argument and actually will likely have the effect of diverting some potential victims to rather confused car dealers rather than their own clutches.

[Tools]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

I know nothing about the campaign group but I'll see if I can make contact.

I am aware of them, you may also want to speak with Dixie

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

This is the advert in which the fraudulent link appeared

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

I've had to split it into two parts and the bogus link appears in the second screen print and I have underlined it in red to make it clear





The link leads here

http://logtul.com



This tactic might be more successful on eBay where I know that sellers are able to insert active links in their adverts and it would be no problem to set up an eBay spoofed webpage to collect buyer details, so this might be one for Buster Jack to watch out for.

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

Everyone will be interested in this article today in the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...rt-fraudsters?

Is opening an account at Barclays a passport for international crooks?
Barclays is being used by international fraudsters to rip off victims both at home and abroad yet it takes no action, according to a campaign group

I know nothing about the campaign group but I'll see if I can make contact.

I really find it incredible that with the massive groundswell of complaints from victims in the UK and abroad, the FCA is about as active as rice pudding and appears more concerned to devise tactics to thwart performing their statutory duties and investigate the massive amount of fraud going on. In this matter, as mentioned in the article, law enforcement has even managed to get crime fraud statistics excluded from crime figures, leaving the banks with an apparently unblemished reputation. Even more incredible is that the banks themselves are trying desperately to portray themselves as being safe and secure but it isn't working simply because the amount of fraud associated with banks is impossible to subdue any longer.

My own concern with the massive rise in 'courier fraud' is that the information to target victims is coming from bank databases but banks have a privileged position with law enforcement, even funding some parts, so that the likelihood of this being investigated is unlikely. I have seen instances where the only only place the information could have come from is the bank, though most news reports don't give enough detail, but simple common sense makes bank records the simplest place to get the information. The significance to banks is that if it is known that they are the source of information supplied to criminals then the losses will be their responsibility.

Last night I found a very interesting and unique dealer hack with very ominous potential risks to those using the Autotrader UK site, both buyers and car dealers. It involved inserting a website link into the actual adverts rather than just a contact email address. I don't know whether or not advertisers can insert active links, and this is very obviously a prototype effort, but inserting a link over email addresses has drawbacks but also some very worrying potential risks if it is exploited properly.

I'll post links and screen prints later today as I like to save evidence.

[lochfisher]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

I would be happy to add my name as a complainant.I still have all the info appertaining to the fraud I was duped by.If I had not known that paypals account was also Barclays then I would never have paid over the money.

[diame]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

Hi have said you can use my info for fca I've emailed them recently and got very quick reply diame

[dixie2013]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

here is a quick update from

ESCROW-FRAUD.COM/SEARCH.PHP

SEARCH DATABASE-ESCROW FRAUD PREVENTION :




Currently our databse search will ONLY do an EXACT MATCH search. It WILL search both the Site Name and the site URL (reported address) and the IP Address.
Also searches are case INSENSITIVE and it will do a wild card search. That means as long as it finds the combination of letters you typed in the exact order, regardless of case, it will return a result (if any exisit). Please note that just because a site is not list in this database, it does NOT mean that it is not a fraud. Please use caution. If you are unsure use our Forum or Feedback to get more information.

Next >>
Records 1 thorough 50 of 13377

13510	10-Sep-2014	Crio-Courier	http://crio-courier.com		81.169.145.152	Layout305
13509	02-Sep-2014	ArkonShip Logistics	http://arkonship.com		188.240.1.110	Layout308
13508	02-Sep-2014	WDO TRANSPORT	http://wdo-transport.com		77.244.243.53	Layout99
13507	02-Sep-2014	TRW-Zones Co.	http://trw-zones.com		197.189.201.254	Layout282
13506	26-Aug-2014	Courier L-T-L	http://courier-ltl-express.com		46.30.212.70	Layout305

THIS MIGHT HELP PREVENT SOMEONE LOSING THERE HARD EARNED CASH.


can't understand why victims have not shown interest in the thread regarding complaining the financial conduct authority (FCA) ? . Alls that is required is to post your interest in requesting more info

i was told by the fca that they would look into our complaint if there was a GROUP of people ALL COMPLAINING about the same issue, there were not very interested to hear just myself asaking for this to be looked into so please lets TRY and get them onboard , maybe just maybe something positive might happen?

dixie:doggieyes:2013

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle / Car Scams

Autotrader UK are hot again tonight taking down the fraudulent adverts. I acknowledge that it's a pain and expensive to do it but the criminals are attacking the site and will do so beyond the point at which the site becomes unusable.

Curiously I have noted recently several instances where the scammers apparently hack some dealer pages with no email contact by which potential victims could contact them (or phone number). Alternatively perhaps AT UK are partially correcting the pages or, maybe the scammers want to make their fraudulent adverts at ridiculous prices appear reasonable and less easy to detect. I'll keep an eye on it, but if there are no contact details there's no need for me to post them as scams.