Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Is there any case histories that support the way this is interpreted. I'd be (reasonable) happy to pay mileage above the normal average but I think but the CCA is pretty clear in that I would be exercising my statutory rights in relation to the act and it doesn't mention anything about mileage. Does it not say something like once half the total value (is that current or original) been paid then there dis nothing further to pay? or words to that effect?

This is the problem, and some may say that it is odd considering the amount of time that this has been in force that there isn't. There are plenty of lower court cases, b ut the decisions in thee seem to go either way and are dependent very much on the individual circumstances.

Some of us have also tried to get a definitive view from the FO but so far all we have had is a note from one of the first tier advisers, which says that on PCP agreements anyway the contractual charges are valid, he does not however address any of the points raised regarding the legislation, and invites the questioner to refer to the ombudsman for further advice.

Personally if millage is not mentioned in the contract and the milliage used is below 15K i would certainly not pay a penny, if it was I would seek to negotiate.

It it was a PCP agreement then it is up to the individual, personally I would question these also, lenders are loathe to go to court with these I find and usually settle rather than have the matter tested, unless they feel they can get a default judgment.

[ncf355]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

My attitude would be to apply a reasonable attitude to mileage

If you agreed to 12k a year and its 15k a year you've done, don't sweat it

If however you agreed 12k a year an have done 40k a year, I think you ought to be prepared to pay something in excess mileage, but more what would be reasonable for the drop in the cars value (based on others for sale with that type of mileage), as opposed to some invented 'P per mile' equation from the finance company.

Think that attitude would also stand you in good stead should the creditor (unwisely) decide to take you to court (V unlikely IMHO)


I'm also quite intrigued to see what happens where some of these finance companies have placed grey (as in, not an actual default, but close...) markers on someones file after they've used their rights to VT - I'm convinced that if the debtor could show they would have had a clean credi history without such a marker, there would be a basis for damages

[Jodelpilot63]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Is there any case histories that support the way this is interpreted. I'd be (reasonable) happy to pay mileage above the normal average but I think but the CCA is pretty clear in that I would be exercising my statutory rights in relation to the act and it doesn't mention anything about mileage. Does it not say something like once half the total value (is that current or original) been paid then there dis nothing further to pay? or words to that effect?

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

The CCA and section 100 says noting about mileage, only that reasonable care should be have taken of the goods under the contract. Generally this is interpreted as the normal usage which most motoring organisations consider to be about 12-15k per anum. However any usage over this would be down to negotiation.
On PCP agreements there is generally a clause in the contract which states the mileage allowance, the jury is still out as to if this is enforceable or not. Some say(and I agree) that the contractual term cannot override the requirements of legislation and the terms are not enforceable. Others(lenders mostly) will say that these are the terms you agreed to when you took the vehicle on therefore you are liable,

[Jodelpilot63]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

With respect to Voluntary termination of a vehicle once 50% (or not) of the contract value has been paid it is my understanding that in these circumstances you cannot be charged any excess mileage. Can anyone confirm if that is correct?

[nobodysdriving]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

It sounds like it should be strightforward. Get the photos and remember the newspaper as proof of date. Scratches on wheel trims - fair wear and tear, but possibly not worth arguing about. Good luck!

Hi Wombats

At the end I decided to 'go with the flow' so:

I did not bring with me my 'damage list' to record anything, after all my car is free of any damage apart from a few small scratched on just ONE of the plastic wheel hubs.

But: I have recorded the conversion with sales man and I have taken photos of the car (which are dated by my camera).

the sales man accepting my car did not have ANY damage check list himself, and did not ask me to sign for anyting

he said there was nothing wrong with the car apart from the light scratches on one wheel hub which he said would be 'normal wear and tear' and I should not be charged for that. He noted the mileage 5565 miles from new (car is 22 months old from registration)

I said to him I am very worried and am expecting a letter from RMS asking for damage to be paid, he said 'well, if such letter arrives they have nothing to stand on as the car is perfect apart from a lightly scratched wheel hub'

we signed section 9 of the log book which I have to post to DVLA tomorrow

now's the 'waiting'!

I will update you all in due time

PS I took photos of car on way out

[Talljams]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi guys I'm looking for some advice. I recently started the process to VT my peugeot but i seem to have lost the service/manual book, will i still be able to return the car and will i be charged for the loss of the book?... Also there is some damage to the alloys will i also be charged for this bearing in mind that the car is six years old
many thanks

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

It sounds like it should be strightforward. Get the photos and remember the newspaper as proof of date. Scratches on wheel trims - fair wear and tear, but possibly not worth arguing about. Good luck!

[nobodysdriving]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Reasonable wear and tear is allowed for. You shouldn't be charged for the brake pads as long as it's been serviced.

it's been serviced, thank you, I will definitely post here an update as and when I have news (well first after I have handed in the car...this is due to be done monday, then a few weeks later if I have a letter or not...but at this stage am kind of 'expecting' a request for payment from these sharks).

I have looked at my car properly today, I see NO DAMAGE anywhere, not one scratch. the only scratch is on ONE of the plastic wheel covers. NOTHING ELSE at all. Hopefully all will be ok.

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Reasonable wear and tear is allowed for. You shouldn't be charged for the brake pads as long as it's been serviced.

[nobodysdriving]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just to echo Wombats advice

I know it can be intimidating, and they do not make it easy. What you have to remember is that you hold all the cards, whatever they may tell you , you do not have to do anything other than drop the car off, if they become too obnoxious just put the keys on the counter and walk away, take a goodbye picture of the car on your way out if you like with your phone but it is not really needed.

All that is required of you is what is in the legislation it doesn't matter what is in there paperwork, when you fill in their forms you are doing them a favor remember that, although they will undoubtedly tell you otherwise, once the car has gone back they will undoubtedly send you a bill,. I have done 5 of these personalty and involved in countless others and this is the case without exception, many will just pay, this is why they send them, of the ones that dispute them i would say 90% have them dropped or drastically reduced.

So keep you head up like i said they are doing you no favors you are simply exercising your rights. let us know how you get on.

thank you Andy58

I am 'dreading this'

I will have to read the whole thread from the beginning as I can't remember the 'legislation' bits (you say 'all that is required of you is what is in the legislation', so not sure, I have read the contract issued by Peugeot....)

As far as I know there is some light scratches to wheel cover on one wheel (done by curb), these are only plastic covers not alloy so cheap one to replace. and that is it! The brake pads may need replacing I don't know, it's done 5500 miles from new and had a service last year in december (I got it january 2013).

Guess I'll be back on here in 2 to 3 weeks telling you all of the money they are demanding of me

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just a threatogram, I would either ignore it or send back a response repeating your earlier letter. Very unlikely a court would enforce such a demand, and even more unlikely they would take it that far, they are just hoping you cave in.

No idea why they should think they have any right to re sell the car in the same condition you returned it in, there is no legal reason why they should, the car only has to be in reasonable condition for its age, I would have thought they would have wanted it to be in exceptional condition before they sold it. In any case it is not your problem what they do with it once it has gone back, you have no "contractual responsibility" the contract with you is terminated in any case.

[simon.treacher]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Again!


Received further correspondence 1 month after the below e-mail. Sorry if this is all a bit long but advice appreciated.


My Reply:


RMS


Thank-you for the electronic documents, however I already have paper copies of those you have sent. As discussed on the 27th August 2014 –I clearly stated during our telephone conversation that I dispute the charges and report from G3/RMS Receivables.


Attached is a copy of the inspection report at the time of collection and the only noted damage to the vehicle was some light scratches (LS) and x2 chips (C). One to rear bumper and one to the car bonnet. The car bonnet chip did not progress to the under-layer and was superficial. The inspector at the time has also noted x3 ‘S’ on the report – as there is no actual ‘S’ on your DAMAGE ABBREVIATIONS one can only assume he meant light scratch (LS) as the vehicle had no severe scratches (SS) at the time of collection. I’m sure your inspector would have noted such as he appeared very diligent and thorough during the inspection.


It is however with great concern that I note his report in no way reflects the damage your Damage Value report suggests; and I can again only assume that further damage has taken place once the vehicle left my possession. As such I refute the majority of the charges you are suggesting I have incurred.


Whilst the vehicle was 8 and ½ years old it was, and I’m sure still is, perfectly road worthy as you yourself said the vehicle has already been sold – without any of the work you stated being completed. However I am prepared to accept that the chip/scuff to the bumper was possibly excessive in relation to the age of the car and fair wear and tear for one that had done approximately 100,000 miles. I would be prepared to meet the cost of £45 that you have quoted for the bumper repair.


Should you wish to discuss this matter further I would appreciate all future correspondence to be in writing, via post, and I am quite prepared to issue a Cheque for the £45 when you confirm this is acceptable in writing.


I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.


Followed by reply received today:


Simon,


We write with reference to your e-mail dated 2nd September 2014. The contents of which have been noted.


You were notified on your voluntary termination response/quotation form that there would be a cursory inspection upon collection and then there would be a second inspection carried out as well. This is also stated in the disclaimer on the inspection report you attached to your e-mail.


On your attached inspection report it states the vehicle was wet and a full inspection was unable to be carried out. This is why there is a second, more in-depth inspection completed on site.


Our client Peugeot Financial Services has no legal obligation to carry out any out repairs to the vehicle and as such hold the right to sell the vehicle sold as seen. The charges in relation to this claim are pursuant to contract and shows the estimate of repair, which is derived by obtaining a national average of repair charges from a database of approved repairers.


The car drove a total of 73 miles to site once it left your possession. The probability of all the ‘extra damage’ occurring in the 73 miles is extremely unlikely in comparison to the amount of time and miles covered by yourself.


Just because a vehicle is 8 and ½ years old does not mean the vehicle will have many scratches/dents etc. Also just because a vehicle is roadworthy does not take away the fact that you are obliged to honour your contractual agreement with our client.


We will not be accepting your offer of £45.00.


We are however willing to close this matter. Peugeot Financial Services agreed to accept the sum of £625.00, in Full and Final settlement of this Claim for damages. This will need to be paid in full on or by 10/10/2014


Failure to comply with this request will result in our client immediately demanding the payment of the original amount and reserve the right to issue legal proceedings against you for that amount should payment not be forthcoming.


We therefore politely request that you call our office on 0113 2014440 to make payment to the total sum of £625.00 by debit or credit card. Alternatively please pay into the following bank account on or before the date specified above.


RMS Receivables:
Sort Code: 20-11-81
Account Number: 13500314
(Our reference must be quoted with all payments


Regards,


RMS




So that's where I stand at present, thoughts anyone?
Simon

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I wanted to thank everyone for this thread!

I am terminating my 'just add fuel' agreement with Peugeot.

I paid under 50% so I had to pay them a 'settlement figure' which I have last week.

then they told me RMS would arrange pick up of the car (which is only 19 months old with 5500 miles!), when I called them today they said they pick up monday to friday 9 to 5, I work during those hours so 'got upset' and told them 'surely I can just take it to my Peugeot dealer? I happen to live next door to them!'

they said I could drop it off at dealer so long that I gave them a 'named contact'.

I walked off to dealer, spoke to the sales manager who agreed to receive car and give his name, we called RMS and gave him his name.

Now on monday I have to take the car to dealer as RMS is collecting it from them on wednesday....I told the sales manager I will want to take photos of the car to certify it's 'condition' , he said he would do this anyway.

I have now 'drafted' a document which will me 'my report' on the condition of the car.

I have based my document on the terms and conditions set out in the contract by Peugeot where they specify what is 'normal wear and tear' down to the tiniest details...for each paragraph I have put down the statements NO (as in no damage found) and YES give details.

I will ask the sales guy to circle no or yes as applicable and get him to write down details if a yes is circled. We both will have to sign each page which has the car reg number on it and date.

I will then give him a copy of this document, I will also be happy to sign his report/document and ask for a copy.

Not sure what else to do to 'protect' myself

there are things in the T&Cs that I don't know how the guy can possibly check on 'the spot' like if the brake pads need replacing? or if the discs are scratched!

I am SO dreading this

Just to echo Wombats advice

I know it can be intimidating, and they do not make it easy. What you have to remember is that you hold all the cards, whatever they may tell you , you do not have to do anything other than drop the car off, if they become too obnoxious just put the keys on the counter and walk away, take a goodbye picture of the car on your way out if you like with your phone but it is not really needed.

All that is required of you is what is in the legislation it doesn't matter what is in there paperwork, when you fill in their forms you are doing them a favor remember that, although they will undoubtedly tell you otherwise, once the car has gone back they will undoubtedly send you a bill,. I have done 5 of these personalty and involved in countless others and this is the case without exception, many will just pay, this is why they send them, of the ones that dispute them i would say 90% have them dropped or drastically reduced.

So keep you head up like i said they are doing you no favors you are simply exercising your rights. let us know how you get on.

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

It sounds like you've got it pretty much covered. When you take the photos, make sure you have a copy of that day's newspaper in them as well to prove the date. The condition report is usually the single biggest issue with VT's with one party wanting as much money as possible and the other wanting to give none. If you're asked to sign one, sign like a police statement immediately after the itemised 'issues' if there are any, as well as on the dotted line. This just ensures they can't add anything later.