Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[neilkav]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hello all,

First post, I must say what a brilliant site and fantastic source of information. Thank you!!

I have a very quick question (apologies if this has been covered before - I did try to find the answer without success).

My HP agreement with black horse finance on my car reaches its 50% stage after my payment on the 25th May 2015, I intend to VT the vehicle following the guidelines and using the template letter on this site soon after the 25th May 2015.

My question is around timing, should I contact them now (approx. 6 weeks out) and advise them of my intention to VT and advise them of the date (i.e. on or after the 25th May 2015) OR should I wait and simply write to them at around that time?

Thanks in advance, Neil.

[car must go]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

hi, could do with some help I rang my finance company last week((30th) and started the vt , the week before a rang 3 times at least asking for a copy of my hp agreement as I've never had a copy sent to me(signed one at dealers but that was sent to them and I was ment to get a copy posted but never got one)back to vt when I rang all the rep would say was they had on interest in the car!!! they got a letter from me the following day(31st) putting the vt in writing.(that was Tuesday) on Wednesday I got a copy of agreement which was dated 27th, today 4th I've got a letter from them saying that saying" I can confirm that your finance agreement is classified as a loan and is therefore not subject to termination by return of the vehicle"
they then say " you may wish to sell the vehicle but please be aware that unless the agreement is settled in full, payment is still required".

the one and only letter(27/07/12) I've had off them says "credit agreement " not loan and told me about when my payments would be taken each month.


hope someone can help

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi

You need to refer them back to section 173 of the act point out that the Consumer credit act does not allow for the contracting out of a provision contained within the act for protection of the Hire.

Contractual provision you indicate is unenforceable under the act.

Hi Wombats...

I sent an email to RMS receivables this morning and mentioned your advice stated in your post and I have just had this response from them today. I am baffled by the legal terms and not really sure how to reply to them. Sorry to ask again but can you give me any pointers on how to respond. I am so grateful for any help. Kind regards Claire.

Here's their reply.....

We write with reference to your recent email.

· You signed your credit agreement and terms and conditions of hire, both of which were presented to you at point of sale, you confirmed that you had read and accepted the contract by signing. Both the credit agreement and T&C’s clearly set out the charge for excess mileage and we specifically refer you to section 14, subsection 5 and 6. Refusal to pay excess mileage charges is a breach of contract and as a result may have a financial impact on you should our client force litigation for the repayment of the sums owed this in turn will have an adverse effect on your future creditworthiness should the debt remain unpaid.
· No breach of the FCA guidelines has occurred as you were properly presented with these documents, again confirmed by your signature.

Below is stated on your voluntary termination response form






Below is a statement from the Consumer Credit Act (CCA)

• Section 100 subsection (4) of the CCA, stipulates that ‘If the debtor has contravened an obligation to take reasonable care of the goods or land, the amount arrived at under subsection (1) shall be increased by the sum required to recompense the creditor for that contravention, and subsection (2) shall have effect accordingly.’ This is further extended in section 101 subsection (2) Whereby “Termination of an agreement under subsection (1) does not affect any liability under the agreement which has accrued before the termination” . Any sums due to under that agreement such as Excess mileage and damage that is accrued during the period of said agreement and fall due during the Voluntary Termination process is to be paid in excess or the 50% Value.

We therefore politely request that you call our office on 0113 2014440 to make payment to the total sum of £399.79 by debit or credit card. Alternatively please pay into the following bank account.

RMS Receivables:
Sort Code: 20-11-81
Account Number: 13500314
(Our reference must be quoted with all payments

Regards,

Wayne

[Rocketman]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Can I ask if someone can give me a second opinion on the attached, as I am still struggling as to what the way forward is on this?

The Grinch - Thank you for your response on this, which I really do appreciate.

Can I ask if andy58 & Mr.Peterbard agree that this would be the right thing to do in my/our particular circumstances??? Many thanks.

Would VT'ing the PCP adversely affect my wifes' credit history if we do this?

Settlement figure from BMW is £25,998 with next payment of £430 due 5th April. My wife has made just 5 x payments since PCP was set up - its listed as a "HIRE PURCHASE AGREEMENT Rgeultaed by CCA 1974".

What are my options to dispose of the vehicle? And how much is this going to cost me? Many thanks in advance.

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi

You need to refer them back to section 173 of the act point out that the Consumer credit act does not allow for the contracting out of a provision contained within the act for protection of the Hire.

Contractual provision you indicate is unenforceable under the act.

Thank you so much wombats I will send a reply back to them and state this.
Claire

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi

You need to refer them back to section 173 of the act point out that the Consumer credit act does not allow for the contracting out of a provision contained within the act for protection of the Hire.

Contractual provision you indicate is unenforceable under the act.

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Andy, this is the email I sent to rms receivables... It took a very long time to get a reply... I'll put his response in red at the end of the email I sent... Could you give me some advice on how to respond to this. Any help would be much appreciated... Claire

Dear Wayne


Thank you for confirming via telephone conversation on 10 March 16.00hrs that the incorrect charges for non existent damage have been written off.





I am now writing to contest the charges for excess milage and requesting that you return the overpayment of £200 that I made to voluntary terminate the vehicle. As I discussed with you earlier I have a receipt for £200 which I paid as a deposit during the negotiations with the Peugeot salesman where he convinced me pay this sum in order to hire the car in September 2012. I believe in law this is a binding agreement called antecedent negotiations. When I wrote to Peugeot to give notice to voluntary terminate (VT) they said I had to pay the sum of £214.60 in order to reach 50% of the sums due. I am therefore requesting you return my overpayment of £200 within 7 days or I may consider further action.


Regarding excess Milage - As you are aware, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows for me to voluntarily terminate our agreement without further cost, providing the vehicle agreement has had in excess of 50% of the total sums due paid.

I have paid in excess of 50% of the total sums due under this agreement and the vehicle has been returned in a reasonable condition, as again required by the act to effect a VT. 23000 miles for a 2 and a half year car is well below the average 12k annual milage and therefore when selling my car in auction or retail this would be considered below average.

The Consumer credit act and the contract says that once one half of the total amount payable under the contract is paid nothing else is due.



The amount due on termination is defined in section 100 of the CCA and it says nothing about excess millage fees.



You cannot include a term in a contract which contravenes a provision included in statute for the protection of the consumer (contracting out), such an excess millage term would be in contravention of section 100 and section 173(no contracting out permissible)



Such a term in a contract would be a penalty in common law and unenforceable, as it is not a genuine pre-estimte of losses under the contract, if it were there would be a value for under usage, and a rebate given if the given millage was not attained.


This term was not negotiated under the contract nor was it a core term and therefore under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts act 1999, and I would assert that the term was unfair in that it did not fairly balance the inters of both parties for the above.


I await your response to both issues.


Claire,

With regards to your dispute below, you will need to contact Peugeot Financial services and not us. We have no connection with any potential over payment.

Please contact Peugeot Financial Services Directly.

Excess Mileage

As discussed, please find attached your contract, terms and conditions and voluntary termination response and quotation form.

Your contract makes provisions for an excess mileage charge. We refer you to the excess mileage details on page 2 of your agreement. The agreed annual mileage was 6,000 miles, a total of 18,000 mile full term. Any mileage in excess of this figure would be charged in accordance with your agreement at 4.17 pence per mile. We also refer you to your terms and conditions specifically section 14.5 excess mileage charge, ‘The basic mileage is the permitted mileage under the terms of the agreement, calculated by multiplying the basic annual mileage shown in the mileage details section by the number of whole and/or part years that have passed since this agreement date, up to the date of calculation. Excess mileage calculations are based upon total paid months, allocated in monthly intervals, not a daily calculation up to the point of return (not how long you have the vehicle). You had made a total of 28 payments throughout your agreement (Please note your payments made in arrears and any deposits or VT fees are not used in the above calculation).

• Contract term was 37 months
• Pro Rata mileage would be 28 months based on the number of payments our client has received of £189.89pm, which equals a Pro Rata mileage of 13,621
• Collection Mileage = 23,209
• Variance in Mileage = 9,587
• Excess Mileage Cost = £399.79

The consumer credit act protects consumers, but you have signed a contract with a party and you are liable to honor that contract as you are in breach of that contractual agreement. We must remind you that a refusal to pay the excess mileage charges is a contractual breach and is considered to be a fraudulent misuse of a financial asset. Non-payment can result in your details being registered on the National Fraud Database, CIFAS the UK’s fraud prevention services). This should not be seen as inappropriate advice.


We therefore politely request that you call our office on 0113 2014440 to make payment to the total sum of £399.79 by debit or credit card. Alternatively please pay into the following bank account.

RMS Receivables:
Sort Code: 20-11-81
Account Number: 13500314
(Our reference must be quoted with all payments

Regards,

Wayne

Bump... Hi Andy.. Really sorry to bump this but I was wondering if you could read this and advise me on how to respond. Thanks in advance for any advice

[Rocketman]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

The Grinch - Thank you for your response on this, which I really do appreciate.

Can I ask if andy58 & Mr.Peterbard agree that this would be the right thing to do in my/our particular circumstances??? Many thanks.

Would VT'ing the PCP adversely affect my wifes' credit history if we do this?

Settlement figure from BMW is £25,998 with next payment of £430 due 5th April. My wife has made just 5 x payments since PCP was set up - its listed as a "HIRE PURCHASE AGREEMENT Rgeultaed by CCA 1974".

What are my options to dispose of the vehicle? And how much is this going to cost me? Many thanks in advance.

[The Grinch]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Yeah, start off sending that letter Ive read it all and its spot on. You dont have to have paid the 50% figure yet to do a vt but you still have to pay any shortfall which can be done over time if they'll do that, or even put into a dmp.

[Rocketman]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I write in desparation as I am not sure what to do with this.
My wife took out a 4 year PCP with a well known BMW dealer who have financed the deal through BMW Finance., back in October 2014. She was using her employees cash for car option to cover the payments.
She has now has now had to give up work through severe Depression and Anxiety, and is very ill indeed, which leaves us in a difficult situation.
I can't afford to cover the payments on the BMW on my salary, along with mortgage, house bills etc.

What is the best way of extracting us out of this contract? I want to VT the car. Is the template letter and action recommended at the start of this thread still valid considering this was posted in 2012??? Do I simply send this letter to BMW Finance to advise of VT?

The car is a BMW 520D SE saloon with 4000 miles on the clock. First registered in november 2014.

Everyone, I am really sorry to BUMP this posting but I really don't know where to turn and how best to handle this situation and I am seeking some guidance as to what options are open for me.
Do I just send a copy of the Template letter to BMW Finance and wait to see what happens?

I tried approaching the BMW Dealership where my wife arranged the purchase but they have come back and said that they already have 11 x 5 demonstrators on the forecourt they are looking to sell on, so as there would be minimal profit in it for them due to the low mileage and recent set up of the PCP, they are unable to take the car back and sell it on. I am just looking for a reasonable offer to minimise the amount between what the PCP value is £25,637 and what I can realistically expect to receive for the car sale and make up the difference.
Or is there another way?
I spoke to 'webuyanycar.com an the best they could offer was £17.5K
I need to shift this millstone someone before it has a detremental impact on my dwindling finances!!!
Any constructive advice with how best to do this will be most welcome.
Thank you in advance for your kind assistance.

[Blueboy777uk]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just done some research on the intersting term used -

"We must remind you that a refusal to pay the excess mileage charges is a contractual breach and is considered to be a fraudulent misuse of a financial asset."

The UK Law Society states there is no statutory definition of finaicial abuse. The nearest I can find to the statement used is "assest misappropriation fraud" which relates to "third parties or employees in an organisation who abuse their position to steal from it through fraudulent activity" - Source http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

Threatening someone with an unfounded criminal charge seems an extreme measure. We have not broken any laws and suggest criminality for a consumer debt is both shocking and ethically wrong? Surely? Am I the only one who thinks this? Any of our learned friends on here want to wade in with some well founded advice?

[Blueboy777uk]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

"The consumer credit act protects consumers, but you have signed a contract with a party and you are liable to honor that contract as you are in breach of that contractual agreement."

How are any of us in breach of contract by exercising our legal right to VT a vehicle assuming that we have met the financial criteria to do so? Is this correct? If not then surely that is their argument muted?

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Yes but I would mention the over payment of £200 and say that if you do not receive it within 7 days you will be considering further action.(should put them on the back foot a little)

Hi Andy, this is the email I sent to rms receivables... It took a very long time to get a reply... I'll put his response in red at the end of the email I sent... Could you give me some advice on how to respond to this. Any help would be much appreciated... Claire

Dear Wayne


Thank you for confirming via telephone conversation on 10 March 16.00hrs that the incorrect charges for non existent damage have been written off.





I am now writing to contest the charges for excess milage and requesting that you return the overpayment of £200 that I made to voluntary terminate the vehicle. As I discussed with you earlier I have a receipt for £200 which I paid as a deposit during the negotiations with the Peugeot salesman where he convinced me pay this sum in order to hire the car in September 2012. I believe in law this is a binding agreement called antecedent negotiations. When I wrote to Peugeot to give notice to voluntary terminate (VT) they said I had to pay the sum of £214.60 in order to reach 50% of the sums due. I am therefore requesting you return my overpayment of £200 within 7 days or I may consider further action.


Regarding excess Milage - As you are aware, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows for me to voluntarily terminate our agreement without further cost, providing the vehicle agreement has had in excess of 50% of the total sums due paid.

I have paid in excess of 50% of the total sums due under this agreement and the vehicle has been returned in a reasonable condition, as again required by the act to effect a VT. 23000 miles for a 2 and a half year car is well below the average 12k annual milage and therefore when selling my car in auction or retail this would be considered below average.

The Consumer credit act and the contract says that once one half of the total amount payable under the contract is paid nothing else is due.



The amount due on termination is defined in section 100 of the CCA and it says nothing about excess millage fees.



You cannot include a term in a contract which contravenes a provision included in statute for the protection of the consumer (contracting out), such an excess millage term would be in contravention of section 100 and section 173(no contracting out permissible)



Such a term in a contract would be a penalty in common law and unenforceable, as it is not a genuine pre-estimte of losses under the contract, if it were there would be a value for under usage, and a rebate given if the given millage was not attained.


This term was not negotiated under the contract nor was it a core term and therefore under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts act 1999, and I would assert that the term was unfair in that it did not fairly balance the inters of both parties for the above.


I await your response to both issues.


Claire,

With regards to your dispute below, you will need to contact Peugeot Financial services and not us. We have no connection with any potential over payment.

Please contact Peugeot Financial Services Directly.

Excess Mileage

As discussed, please find attached your contract, terms and conditions and voluntary termination response and quotation form.

Your contract makes provisions for an excess mileage charge. We refer you to the excess mileage details on page 2 of your agreement. The agreed annual mileage was 6,000 miles, a total of 18,000 mile full term. Any mileage in excess of this figure would be charged in accordance with your agreement at 4.17 pence per mile. We also refer you to your terms and conditions specifically section 14.5 excess mileage charge, ‘The basic mileage is the permitted mileage under the terms of the agreement, calculated by multiplying the basic annual mileage shown in the mileage details section by the number of whole and/or part years that have passed since this agreement date, up to the date of calculation. Excess mileage calculations are based upon total paid months, allocated in monthly intervals, not a daily calculation up to the point of return (not how long you have the vehicle). You had made a total of 28 payments throughout your agreement (Please note your payments made in arrears and any deposits or VT fees are not used in the above calculation).

• Contract term was 37 months
• Pro Rata mileage would be 28 months based on the number of payments our client has received of £189.89pm, which equals a Pro Rata mileage of 13,621
• Collection Mileage = 23,209
• Variance in Mileage = 9,587
• Excess Mileage Cost = £399.79

The consumer credit act protects consumers, but you have signed a contract with a party and you are liable to honor that contract as you are in breach of that contractual agreement. We must remind you that a refusal to pay the excess mileage charges is a contractual breach and is considered to be a fraudulent misuse of a financial asset. Non-payment can result in your details being registered on the National Fraud Database, CIFAS the UK’s fraud prevention services). This should not be seen as inappropriate advice.


We therefore politely request that you call our office on 0113 2014440 to make payment to the total sum of £399.79 by debit or credit card. Alternatively please pay into the following bank account.

RMS Receivables:
Sort Code: 20-11-81
Account Number: 13500314
(Our reference must be quoted with all payments

Regards,

Wayne

[Rocketman]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I write in desparation as I am not sure what to do with this.
My wife took out a 4 year PCP with a well known BMW dealer who have financed the deal through BMW Finance., back in October 2014. She was using her employees cash for car option to cover the payments.
She has now has now had to give up work through severe Depression and Anxiety, and is very ill indeed, which leaves us in a difficult situation.
I can't afford to cover the payments on the BMW on my salary, along with mortgage, house bills etc.

What is the best way of extracting us out of this contract? I want to VT the car. Is the template letter and action recommended at the start of this thread still valid considering this was posted in 2012??? Do I simply send this letter to BMW Finance to advise of VT?

The car is a BMW 520D SE saloon with 4000 miles on the clock. First registered in november 2014.

[alphawhiskey]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Blueboy

Hmm, yeah a template I bet - not a nice letter to get and I imagine it frightens a lot of people into just paying (I admit it's crossed my mind)... but it's the principle of it that gets me. I get the impression that they just use any tactics possible to claw money back. It's just very difficult to know where you stand legally on any of this and if/how you can counteract their claims!... So yes, any suggestions/advice greatly needed... hopefully we can find a way out of this that works for us!

Angela