Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[Blueboy777uk]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hey AlphaWhiskey,

I am at this exact stage with RMS, whilst the values owed are different it appears to be the same template letter. They claimed our vehicle was both wet and dirty. Neither statements true. Photos to prove. Got to a point whereby we are willing to offer a goodwill gesture payment just to put an end to it - but categorically refuse to pay for "damage" and pro-rate mileage.

Anyone have a suggestion how to counter this latest letter / threat from RMS please? Any help, as ever, greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[alphawhiskey]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi there.... am really hoping someone can help me with this:

I followed the instructions as per this (great) thread in terms of triggering the VT on my car and it was collected for auction a few weeks ago. I signed a report form agreeing to 'light scratches' on the front and back bumpers. The chap who collected the car (who admittedly didn't work for the finance company) assured me that the car was well within what he'd call 'fair wear and tear'. I should also add though that it was raining at the time of inspection and so the box which says 'unable to check fully due to wet weather' has been checked on the report form.

I have now received a letter from the finance company demanding I pay them £140 for excess mileage charges as well as £380 for scratches to the bumpers (as marked on report as light scratches), scratches to 3 wheels (not on report) and a chip to the roof (not on report).

My questions are:

1. Do I need to pay the excess mileage? I thought with a VT they couldn't do this
2. Do I need to pay for all the damage they are claiming or am I in my rights to say it's within fair wear and tear as per the feedback from auction house rep who collected the car?

Any help/advice would be SO appreciated!

Thanks

Angela

Hi again...

So, I wrote to RMS saying that I didn't believe I needed to pay either the excess mileage charge (as it was a VT) or the 'damage' charges (as in my opinion it was well within 'fair wear and tear')... and this is the response I got back (below). Any advice on what to do now? All help/guidance v appreciated! Thank you! Angela

RMS' REPLY:

"According to the documents supplied to us by the auction house. It is made apparent that the vehicle showed evidence of damage on collection. Those damage being identified as over and above industry guidelines

Please refer to section ‘6.1’ of your terms and conditions ‘Care of the vehicle’. This explains that you will be solely liable for any loss or damage to the vehicle even it is not your fault.. (6.2) Keep the vehicle in good condition (see clause 18), carry out any repairs and replace parts when necessary and maintain and service the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations. Both inspection reports will not necessarily be the same. As much as we would like the agents to identify all damages including the obvious areas of damage, this is not always the case. As you can see from the 1^st inspection report, it states ‘unable to check fully due to – Wet.

Excess Mileage

Your contract makes provisions for an excess mileage charge. We refer you to the excess mileage details on page 2 of your agreement. The agreed annual mileage was 6,000 miles, a total of 18,000 mile full term. Any mileage in excess of this figure would be charged in accordance with your agreement at 5 pence per mile. We also refer you to your terms and conditions “attached” specifically section 14.5 excess mileage charge, ‘The basic mileage is the permitted mileage under the terms of the agreement, calculated by multiplying the basic annual mileage shown in the mileage details section by the number of whole and/or part years that have passed since this agreement date, up to the date of calculation. Excess mileage calculations are based upon total paid months, allocated in monthly intervals, not a daily calculation up to the point of return (not how long you have the vehicle). You had made a total of 34 payments throughout your agreement (Please note your payments made in arrears and any deposits or VT fees are not used in the above calculation).

• Contract term was 37 months
• Pro Rata mileage would be 34 months based on the number of payments our client has received of £99.95pm, which equals a Pro Rata mileage of 16,540
• Collection Mileage = 19,369
• Variance in Mileage = 2,828
• Excess Mileage Cost = £141.42

In order to reach an early commercial settlement our client Citroen Financial Services agrees to accept less than the full amount of the debt owed for damage to vehicle LN12VSX, Citroen Financial Services agreed to accept the sum of £210.00 for damages only, in Full and Final settlement of this damage Claim. (66% of damage balance)

The excess mileage amount will remain at £141.42.

Failure to comply with this request will result in our client immediately demanding the payment of the original amount and reserve the right to issue legal proceedings against you for that amount should payment not be forthcoming."

[TheHoob]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

About to start the process to VT my car with Motonovo and I can't decide whether to get a dent in my rear bumper sorted out. It isn't anything major, maybe about 1" in diameter. The car is 11 years old, would it be reasonable to see this as wear and tear on a vehicle so old?

I've also had the car serviced each year but this was carried out by a friend so I don't have stamps. There's nothing in my finance agreement to say that I had to get the vehicle serviced by a registered dealer, could I also argue that this is reasonable or it is likely to be a sticking point too?

The car is probably only worth about £1000 so i'm hoping they won't go too much out of their way to make it difficult.

Thanks in advance

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Yes but I would mention the over payment of £200 and say that if you do not receive it within 7 days you will be considering further action.(should put them on the back foot a little)

Thats great! Thank u I'll get that sent off tomorrow!

[jack1973]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If it is a HP or conditional sale agreement all the arguments in post 560 apply. Basically you cannot sign away a statutory requirement, so if they put a term in the contract which goes against the legislation it is void.

Thanks Andy, very much appreciate the help.

Jack

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, great article and lots of useful information. It does state in a number of places that excess mileage is not enforceable, however I have a Hire Purchase agreement with Mercedes and towards the back is a term that states;

12.1 If the vehicle is returned to us (whether at the end of the period of hire or an earlier termination), we will calculate the total distance traveled by the vehicle whilst in your possession (the 'Total Distance).
12.2 You will pay us a charge at the rate stated in this agreement if and to the extend that the Total Distance exceeds the allowed distance for the vehicle......etc.....

So, as I signed that at the point of starting the agreement, am I therefore bound to that term?

Many thanks in advance

Jack

If it is a HP or conditional sale agreement all the arguments in post 560 apply. Basically you cannot sign away a statutory requirement, so if they put a term in the contract which goes against the legislation it is void.

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply... I actually went ahead with the VT a few weeks ago but I paid them the £214.60 as I didn't realise at the time that I could have VT'd without paying it. I wish I hadn't now but theres no good crying over spilt milk. They then tried to charge me for damage that wasn't there but I had photographic proof that it wasn't as I had taken photos with the newspaper in each shot. Just yesterday they have cancelled the charges but are still pursuing me for £399 for excess milage which I am going to fight them not to pay. I have drafted a letter to send them but wonder if I should mention about the deposit that they took at the beginning of the letter or should I just forget that and just send it regarding the excess milage only?

Kind regards

Claire

Yes but I would mention the over payment of £200 and say that if you do not receive it within 7 days you will be considering further action.(should put them on the back foot a little)

[jack1973]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, great article and lots of useful information. It does state in a number of places that excess mileage is not enforceable, however I have a Hire Purchase agreement with Mercedes and towards the back is a term that states;

12.1 If the vehicle is returned to us (whether at the end of the period of hire or an earlier termination), we will calculate the total distance traveled by the vehicle whilst in your possession (the 'Total Distance).
12.2 You will pay us a charge at the rate stated in this agreement if and to the extend that the Total Distance exceeds the allowed distance for the vehicle......etc.....

So, as I signed that at the point of starting the agreement, am I therefore bound to that term?

Many thanks in advance

Jack

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi there Claire - thanks so much for all that... and in fact yes - I did actually end up sending an email asking about invoices/receipts for the 'damage' work so I'll see what they come back with. That's great about them calling you to waive the charges - well done! I bet that's a big relief for you... although as you say it's just all so unjust in the first place. Good luck with the mileage - I think you should hold your ground, but that's easy for me to say eh ;-)... Angela xx

Ah fingers crossed for you!! Thanks Claire x

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

The first thing is that you do not have to pay anything to VT, the act says that you can terminate the agreement at any time, you do not have to have paid 50% to be able to do it.
I presume you have sent the VT letter ? If so the car will be their problem on the date prescribed in the letter, if they want o pursue for any further money they think you owe they will have to do it after the car has gone back and explain why you were diddled out of this money to the judge.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply... I actually went ahead with the VT a few weeks ago but I paid them the £214.60 as I didn't realise at the time that I could have VT'd without paying it. I wish I hadn't now but theres no good crying over spilt milk. They then tried to charge me for damage that wasn't there but I had photographic proof that it wasn't as I had taken photos with the newspaper in each shot. Just yesterday they have cancelled the charges but are still pursuing me for £399 for excess milage which I am going to fight them not to pay. I have drafted a letter to send them but wonder if I should mention about the deposit that they took at the beginning of the letter or should I just forget that and just send it regarding the excess milage only?

Kind regards

Claire

[alphawhiskey]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Angela,

Yes it certainly does sound like we're in the same situation. I made some progress today...... Did you read my earlier posts? I had 2 extremely minor stone chips and 1 small scratch to the alloy. They were well within the fair wear and tear policy and I had taken photographs with the day of collection newspaper in each shot of every angle of the car as this forum has stated to do. The man who collected the car said that there would be no charge but I didn't trust him so I wrote next to the signature on the form that there was no damage over the fair wear and tear policy. Then I had a bill from RMS stating damage that wasn't there and damage above the policy. I emailed RMS whilst waiting for a reply on how to respond from this forum and I asked them to provide me with receipts that they had carried out the repairs and to provide me with photos of the damage they have found. I just had a call from them today saying they have waived the charge completely!!! I could believe it! I am still annoyed though that they have tried to get money out of me for damage that wasn't there!!

Do you think I should still pursue the excess Milage charge of £399? I am just so reluctant to give them anything due to the miss selling of the vehicle and the £200 deposit I paid peugeot (which I have the receipt for) which did not go towards the finance agreement as stated and I had to pay this in order to get to the 50% mark for the VT.


Angela...If you look on page 11 of this thread and read posts by van on 3rd March there is a letter that he has drafted that he is going to send regarding damage. But if I were u I would do as I've done and ask for a receipt of the repairs and ask for proof of the damage they have found!! Good luck xxx

Hi there Claire - thanks so much for all that... and in fact yes - I did actually end up sending an email asking about invoices/receipts for the 'damage' work so I'll see what they come back with. That's great about them calling you to waive the charges - well done! I bet that's a big relief for you... although as you say it's just all so unjust in the first place. Good luck with the mileage - I think you should hold your ground, but that's easy for me to say eh ;-)... Angela xx

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Andy,

I have drafted a letter regarding the excess milage to send to RMS receivables. I just need to add the point about the deposit as you described above. I wonder if you could explain this a bit more to me please. When I purchased the vehicle new in 2012 the salesman asked for a £200 deposit which I paid by card and have the receipts. When I came to VT, peugeot finance said I still owed £214.60. They would not accept that I had the receipt for the deposit and said that the salesman hadn't apllied this to the finance agreement and told me I would have to take it up with the dealer. When I rang peugeot and spoke to one of the salesman he said I should have had this deposit refunded to me which I definately did not. He got my account up on the screen and confirmed that this did not occur. The salesman who sold me the car no longer works for peugeot. I then spoke to the manager and she said the deposit would have been used to offset negative equity from my previous peugeot. This was not stated to me by the salesman at the time. I rang peugeot financial services back and they said that there was nothing they could do about this and said I must pay the £214.60 or else I coulnt VT. So rightly or wrongly I paid. So this is why I am really reluctant to give them another penny as I feel as though I have been lied to by this salesman over several things aswell as the deposit issue. Sorry this is long winded I hope I have explained the situation. Thanks Andy, Claire.

The first thing is that you do not have to pay anything to VT, the act says that you can terminate the agreement at any time, you do not have to have paid 50% to be able to do it.
I presume you have sent the VT letter ? If so the car will be their problem on the date prescribed in the letter, if they want o pursue for any further money they think you owe they will have to do it after the car has gone back and explain why you were diddled out of this money to the judge.

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Yes and you want to mention that right at the beginning of the letter also, if the salesman made an agreement with you which convinced you to hire the car then this is a binding agreement in law, it certainly should be mentioned. It is called anticedant negotiations, you can say that during anticedent negotiations the salesman said that..... and this was a principle reason for the purchases.

Hi Andy,

I have drafted a letter regarding the excess milage to send to RMS receivables. I just need to add the point about the deposit as you described above. I wonder if you could explain this a bit more to me please. When I purchased the vehicle new in 2012 the salesman asked for a £200 deposit which I paid by card and have the receipts. When I came to VT, peugeot finance said I still owed £214.60. They would not accept that I had the receipt for the deposit and said that the salesman hadn't apllied this to the finance agreement and told me I would have to take it up with the dealer. When I rang peugeot and spoke to one of the salesman he said I should have had this deposit refunded to me which I definately did not. He got my account up on the screen and confirmed that this did not occur. The salesman who sold me the car no longer works for peugeot. I then spoke to the manager and she said the deposit would have been used to offset negative equity from my previous peugeot. This was not stated to me by the salesman at the time. I rang peugeot financial services back and they said that there was nothing they could do about this and said I must pay the £214.60 or else I coulnt VT. So rightly or wrongly I paid. So this is why I am really reluctant to give them another penny as I feel as though I have been lied to by this salesman over several things aswell as the deposit issue. Sorry this is long winded I hope I have explained the situation. Thanks Andy, Claire.

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi sorry Andy that post was for you too... Sorry about it waffling on a bit I'm trying to reply using my phone and I can't see what I've written! Haha. Thank you

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Shutterz and Andy, this is v useful for me too, so thank you. I just wondered what you found for the wording re the damage. It'd be useful for me to use too, so if you're able to post it, that'd be great... Sounds like we are both up against RMS!

Hi Angela,

Yes it certainly does sound like we're in the same situation. I made some progress today...... Did you read my earlier posts? I had 2 extremely minor stone chips and 1 small scratch to the alloy. They were well within the fair wear and tear policy and I had taken photographs with the day of collection newspaper in each shot of every angle of the car as this forum has stated to do. The man who collected the car said that there would be no charge but I didn't trust him so I wrote next to the signature on the form that there was no damage over the fair wear and tear policy. Then I had a bill from RMS stating damage that wasn't there and damage above the policy. I emailed RMS whilst waiting for a reply on how to respond from this forum and I asked them to provide me with receipts that they had carried out the repairs and to provide me with photos of the damage they have found. I just had a call from them today saying they have waived the charge completely!!! I could believe it! I am still annoyed though that they have tried to get money out of me for damage that wasn't there!!

Do you think I should still pursue the excess Milage charge of £399? I am just so reluctant to give them anything due to the miss selling of the vehicle and the £200 deposit I paid peugeot (which I have the receipt for) which did not go towards the finance agreement as stated and I had to pay this in order to get to the 50% mark for the VT.


Angela...If you look on page 11 of this thread and read posts by van on 3rd March there is a letter that he has drafted that he is going to send regarding damage. But if I were u I would do as I've done and ask for a receipt of the repairs and ask for proof of the damage they have found!! Good luck xxx