car sold while still on finance with out consent

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thanks LL will do .

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi Fairy Dust 49,

Of the finance companies I've had dealings with, Black Horse, along with Chartered Trust, are one of the better ones.

Best of luck

Bluebottle

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Hi LL,

It appears you and I have been going down different paths, you down the civil path and me down the criminal path.

When I said, "Good faith no longer applies," I was referring to the "good faith" defence under Section 22, Theft Act 1968, relating to stolen goods and which was repealed during the 1990s.

To answer your question about a car subject to HP being scrapped, if it was a Category A or B write-off or was deliberately destroyed, it would show up on an HPI check, provided HPI had taken the trouble to record this. From what I know of HPI checks, they cover finance, whether a car has been recorded as an insurance write-off, stolen, recovered stolen, or the registration mark has been issued to a vehicle that has been scrapped (it does happen!).

Proving intent in a criminal matter depends on the type of offence involved. I spent two years learning about things like mens rea (state of mind at time of offence), onus probandi (burden of proof) and modus operandi (method of offence) and how they apply to different offences at police college. The training comes in handy at times.

Bluebottle

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi Fairy Dust 49,

Of the finance companies I've had dealings with, Black Horse, along with Chartered Trust, are one of the better ones.

Best of luck

Bluebottle

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Hi LL,

It appears you and I have been going down different paths, you down the civil path and me down the criminal path.

When I said, "Good faith no longer applies," I was referring to the "good faith" defence under Section 22, Theft Act 1968, relating to stolen goods and which was repealed during the 1990s.

To answer your question about a car subject to HP being scrapped, if it was a Category A or B write-off or was deliberately destroyed, it would show up on an HPI check, provided HPI had taken the trouble to record this. From what I know of HPI checks, they cover finance, whether a car has been recorded as an insurance write-off, stolen, recovered stolen, or the registration mark has been issued to a vehicle that has been scrapped (it does happen!).

Proving intent in a criminal matter depends on the type of offence involved. I spent two years learning about things like mens rea (state of mind at time of offence), onus probandi (burden of proof) and modus operandi (method of offence) and how they apply to different offences at police college. The training comes in handy at times.

Bluebottle

Yes i did a degree in civiil law in 80 and sociology in 82 Alsager. i dont mention it because, it may give the impression that i know what i am talking about, but it was along time ago , and i went into business not law.
Still remember the basic stuff though and do try and keep up with developments, now i am retired i hope to get more time.
As you say differnt fields so we could be complimentary and perhaps cut each other a little more slack.

Back to the plot;

YOu say there are differnt catergories of write off are any of these able to make it back on to the road.
LL
LL

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi LL,

Go to the following link. You'll find the information there -

http://www.datachecks.co.uk/insurancelosscategories

Makes interesting reading.

Bluebottle

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi LL,

Go to the following link. You'll find the information there -

http://www.datachecks.co.uk/insurancelosscategories

Makes interesting reading.

Bluebottle

Yes indeed
I notice the Experian check says"Keepers" presumably this gives the name of the registered owner.
Interesting

LL

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Yes indeed
I notice the Experian check says"Keepers" presumably this gives the name of the registered owner.
Interesting

LL

Hi LL,

Strictly speaking, no. The owner is the person or organisation that has legal right and title to a vehicle. For example, if I own a vehicle outright, I am the owner. If, on the other hand, another person or an organisation owns the vehicle and I use it and keep it at my home address, I am the keeper.

I know it sounds confusing, but that's the way Parliament wrote the law. Firms like Experian simply confuse matters even more with the terminology they use which doesn't always co-relate to the terminology used by the police and DVLA.

Sometimes, I think firms use confusing terminology deliberately to throw people off the scent. In a fraud case I was involved with, while I was with CID, a suspect was using terminology none of us understand. When we brought in a forensic accountant, she smiled and said to the suspect very calmly, "In all my years as an accountant, I have never heard such a load of crap. Start speaking plain English or I'll tell the officers exactly what you've been doing." The suspect starting singing like a bird after that.

Bluebottle

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi Bluebottle just to keep you updated of what is going on ,I telephoned dvla today and was informed that I have to write them a letter concerning the log book and they will investigate the matter.Also police again told me to back intouch with BH and ask if they have forms back from new buyer of the car, if yes then they will get intouch with Bh and request copy of the forms and go from there as to what will happen next,they did also inform me that if and when they investigate the case it will be handed over to the scotish border police as the car was sold in Scotland.
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[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi Bluebottle just to keep you updated of what is going on ,I telephoned dvla today and was informed that I have to write them a letter concerning the log book and they will investigate the matter.Also police again told me to back intouch with BH and ask if they have forms back from new buyer of the car, if yes then they will get intouch with Bh and request copy of the forms and go from there as to what will happen next,they did also inform me that if and when they investigate the case it will be handed over to the scotish border police as the car was sold in Scotland.
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Hi Fairy Dust 49,

Thank you for your update. It would appear that matters are moving forward, which is good. As the car was sold in Scotland, the case falls under the jurisdiction of Scottish Law and from what you say, will be passed to Lothian & Borders Police to be dealt with.

Stay strong.

Bluebottle

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi Bluebottle just to keep you updated of what is going on ,I telephoned dvla today and was informed that I have to write them a letter concerning the log book and they will investigate the matter.Also police again told me to back intouch with BH and ask if they have forms back from new buyer of the car, if yes then they will get intouch with Bh and request copy of the forms and go from there as to what will happen next,they did also inform me that if and when they investigate the case it will be handed over to the scotish border police as the car was sold in Scotland.
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write

Any news yet, are the police going to pursue?

LL

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Just quick up date about the car my son sold while it is still on finance,today I had received a hand delivered letter while I was out shopping and ,it was from the fraud office at the black horse they asked me in the letter to contact them straight away which I did.Spoke to very polite guy who wants to come see me over the sale of the car ,apparently BH finance fraud team have been intouch with the new buyer of my car,I don`t know yet what has been said in their conversation but they are making appointment to come back out to see me .I feel at ease now, that this is getting looked into finaly ,also I have got intouch with Scottish police to report car as stolen but I am still waiting on a reply from them may be they will get intouch with the merseyside police first to get full report from them before making a move.

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Just quick up date about the car my son sold while it is still on finance,today I had received a hand delivered letter while I was out shopping and ,it was from the fraud office at the black horse they asked me in the letter to contact them straight away which I did.Spoke to very polite guy who wants to come see me over the sale of the car ,apparently BH finance fraud team have been intouch with the new buyer of my car,I don`t know yet what has been said in their conversation but they are making appointment to come back out to see me .I feel at ease now, that this is getting looked into finaly ,also I have got intouch with Scottish police to report car as stolen but I am still waiting on a reply from them may be they will get intouch with the merseyside police first to get full report from them before making a move.

Hi Fairy Dust,

I would strongly advise you to have someone with you who is legally-trained or legally-qualified when this bod from BH comes to see you. This is for your own protection. Police officers are strictly regulated by a statutory code of conduct and the way they investigate matters is regulated by statute also. Investigators from finance companies are not bound by the laws police are. I'm not saying this to frighten you, but I have a very strong gut feeling about this. If you know someone who is a serving police officer or is in the legal profession, ask them to be there.

Let us know how things go.

If you want to send me a PM, please feel free to do so.

Bluebottle

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thank you Bluebottle for that advise ,my dad is here at the moment and just read your reply and agree`s with you about having some one here ,so I will try and make arrangements to do so .

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thank you Bluebottle for that advise ,my dad is here at the moment and just read your reply and agree`s with you about having some one here ,so I will try and make arrangements to do so .

Hi Fairy Dust,

Thanks for the prompt reply. Best of luck with the meeting with the bod from BH. Let us know how things go, please.

Regards,

Bluebottle

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

I will do Bluebottle,also just to let you know I did also tell mr bod (lol) today on telephone that my son had sent me emails stating he did not care about the car as it was in my name and it would not affect him ,so hopefully that may go in my favour as mentioned on earlier thread I have nevr defaulted on any payments due.

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi Bluebottle ,just letting you know that CAB still have not contacted me and also finding it difficult to find legal aider to come to house and sit in on interview so I have done next best thing and bought voice recorder .Also could you tell me please if I can claim the finance insurance ,found statement of account today and it says ( Insurance loan agreement).On the statement letter it states that BH is a member of the Finance and Leasing Association ( FLA ) ,so I am wondering now if BH has got intouch with this leasing company and they are coming to see me over the sale of the car.Thanks for your time .