car sold while still on finance with out consent

[fairy dust 49]

Please can any one give me advise,I had a car which is still on finance with Black Horse that I bought in 2009 ,I loaned the car to my son in 2010 because my partner had got a motability car for both our use,my son who lives in scotland sold my car last Febuary 2011 for only £6,000 and yet it still had £12,000 remaining on the finance that I am still paying.I don`t see my son as he does not want to pay for the cost of the car I have spoken to Black horse and they said they would find it unfair to retrieve the car from the new owners as they were unaware the car was still on finance so they advised me to report the car as stolen which I did to the police who then said it was up to the finance company as it was still their property.I informed the company what I was told by the police and they then told me again it was up to me to report it stolen so now I do not know which way to turn and to add to this I am still paying the finance and have never defaulted on payments as I do not want bad credits reports.

[charitynjw]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi fairy dust 49,

May I ask, was the car bought on HP?

If so, how much was the original amount?

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

The car was bought on finance priced £10,000 and with interest over 5 yrs total cost was £15,000 with monthly dd £248.

[charitynjw]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Imho, if you have good title to the car, then the civil cause of action would probably be what is known as conversion.

http://www.gillhams.com/dictionary/686.cfm (Click link for info)

You would be entitled to your actual losses, not just the amount the car was sold for.

The criminal equivalent is theft, & in my opinion the police are not correct here.

If you have borrowed money, arranged to pay it back, & you were free to use that money as you wished, the creditor has no title to the car.

ps It is always wise to consider, prior to suing, whether the other party has any assets!

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thank you for your reply charitynjw,I will following this up don`t know how I will get on with this information as when I loaned my son the car with in the matter of 2 months he changed the log book into his name with out my knowledge .When I asked him why he told me he could not get insurance on the car unless the car was in his name ,and although on the back of the finance docs it does state that the car is for my sole purpose the company have not reprimanded me for loaning the car out and have just requested that the payments be made with out any misses.

[labman]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

I think you need to be careful. While I recognise that the person on the logbook is not necessarily the legal owner, it could well appear that your son is, and you have sold the car to him.

Did you not get a letter from DVLA about the change of registered keeper as is their normal practice? I think you need to notify them about the unlawful change, and get it back into your name. You can then tell your son he is uninsured and if necessary report him to the police again, not only for stealing your car, but for driving it without proper insurance as he is not the registered keeper, and changed it to his name without consent.

The police cannot keep passing the book - it is theft, and as such is a criminal matter which they have to deal with. Since when have finance companies been responsible for upholding the law of the land?

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

The problem here, and one that the Creditor will be fully aware of, is that under the Hire Purchase act the new owner has full title and ownership of the vehicle if it was bought in good faith.
The only way they can legally reclaim it is if it was stolen from the original owner hence their advice to report to the police.
LL

[charitynjw]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

The problem here, and one that the Creditor will be fully aware of, is that under the Hire Purchase act the new owner has full title and ownership of the vehicle if it was bought in good faith.
The only way they can legally reclaim it is if it was stolen from the original owner hence their advice to report to the police.
LL

Hi LL

It's not clear, from fairy dust's previous posts, whether this was HP or unrestricted credit (ie, borrow money on terms, but allowed to spend on whatever you like)

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi LL

It's not clear, from fairy dust's previous posts, whether this was HP or unrestricted credit (ie, borrow money on terms, but allowed to spend on whatever you like)

Hello

Sorry i presumed(should never do that) in that case the OP would have no cause to call the creditor as the condition or ownership of the purchase would have nothing to do with them.

LL

[charitynjw]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thank you for your reply charitynjw,I will following this up don`t know how I will get on with this information as when I loaned my son the car with in the matter of 2 months he changed the log book into his name with out my knowledge .When I asked him why he told me he could not get insurance on the car unless the car was in his name ,and although on the back of the finance docs it does state that the car is for my sole purpose the company have not reprimanded me for loaning the car out and have just requested that the payments be made with out any misses.

To the best of my knowledge, the logbook is not proof of ownership, but only proof of the 'keeper'
& regarding the old saying "possession is nine tenths of the law" - which law is that, exactly?

I think the questions here are

Who holds the best title to the property, OP or son?
What 'proof', other than the logbook, is there that the title has been transferred?

If the son cannot produce evidence of good title, it is, in my opinion, theft.

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hello
It really does depend on the type of agreement. If it is a HP or conditional loan agreement then the title, cannot be transferred or gifted to another individual until the last payment is made because the title belongs to the creditor.
If it just the OPs property the manner in which it was purchased is irrelevant, he either gifted it to his son or it was stolen.
LL

[charitynjw]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hello
It really does depend on the type of agreement. If it is a HP or conditional loan agreement then the title, cannot be transferred or gifted to another individual until the last payment is made because the title belongs to the creditor.
If it just the OPs property the manner in which it was purchased is irrelevant, he either gifted it to his son or it was stolen.
LL

& I believe that there must be an intention to make the gift.

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

[quote=charitynjw;245636]& I believe that there must be an intention to make the gift.[/quotes]

Yes otherwise it is theft either from the creditor or from the OP

THis is why the creditor would be pushing the op to report it as being stolen(if it was a HP agreement).
They could then legally reclaim the vihicle.

LL

[charitynjw]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

If you decide to report this to the police (again!), many police forces allow you to do so on-line.

Example - https://www.surrey.police.uk/ReportO...tialQuestions/

Just google - (your police force) report crime online

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

So sorry have only just seen all your messages ,as mentioned before I only loaned my car to my son which he fully understood and knew that I wanted the car back when he was able to get his own car.As for him changing the name on the log book ,he told me weeks after that act was all ready done and the dvla wrote and informed me about 2 months later.the car was bought on personal loan finance hence why I can`t understand why they do not want to retrieve it back from new owner.