car sold while still on finance with out consent

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Oh I do get mad Sapphire and I say i`m going to do all kinds ,but by the time I have slept on it I have then calmed down and do like lots of mums and take the crap that spills out of his mouth .Its now time for me to come to reality and say enough is enough and teach the horror a lesson .Which is why I have been seeking advice from all you good people on this site.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
But surely with me being the original owner then they would be obliged to inform me when and who now has the car and if my son sighned my signature.

[Sapphire]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Good girl, I know it hurts doing it but he really needs the reality check otherwise he will bleed you dry.

Its worth making the call hun, ask them you never know till you ask.

[bluebottle]

I've dealt with similar when I was a policeman. There is clear evidence of intent on the part of your son, Fairy Dust 49. Only the police will be able to obtain copies of the V5C and its component parts your son obtained from you and sent to DVLA to obtain a V5C in his name. It is evidence of his actions and DVLA will be required to make them available to the police.

Good faith, LL, no longer has any bearing in law where stolen goods are acquired innocently by a third party. Proper right and title remains vested in the lawful owner, in this case, the finance company. The "good faith" defence was repealed back in the 1990s. I'm afraid the person who is now driving around in Fairy Dust 49's car is going to get an awful shock when the police pull them over and they watch a local recovery agent take it away to a secure pound. Furthermore, if the new owner/keeper knows the car is stolen, they are going to be arrested for Handling Stolen Goods. Trying to deal with this as a civil matter is not an option. The circumstances clearly show it is a criminal matter. Fairy Dust 49's status in this matter is that of a witness, as she is not the lawful owner of the car, only its keeper.

The police are the best people to deal with this and the matter should be passed to them asap before the little scrote does anything else.

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thank you very much Bluebottle and Sapphire for your help with this matter and your knowlegde, it is most appreciated and I will let you know asap how I have got on reporting it again ,most prob when I take the said emails as proof some thing will be done even if the car is returned to finance company.But saying that I have payed up to date and only have 2 yrs left on cost so I would even be happy to have it back with me.

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thank you very much Bluebottle and Sapphire for your help with this matter and your knowlegde, it is most appreciated and I will let you know asap how I have got on reporting it again ,most prob when I take the said emails as proof some thing will be done even if the car is returned to finance company.But saying that I have payed up to date and only have 2 yrs left on cost so I would even be happy to have it back with me.

Your welcome

hope everything goes well nevertheless

LL
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
[quote=bluebottle;245869]I've dealt with similar when I was a policeman. There is clear evidence of intent on the part of your son, Fairy Dust 49. Only the police will be able to obtain copies of the V5C and its component parts your son obtained from you and sent to DVLA to obtain a V5C in his name. It is evidence of his actions and DVLA will be required to make them available to the police.

Good faith, LL, no longer has any bearing in law where stolen goods are acquired innocently by a third party. quote]


Hello blue bolttle
this is from the hire purdhase act 1965

Protection of 27.-(1) The provisions of this section shall have effect where purchasers of a motor vehicle has been let under a hire-purchase agreement, motor vehicles. Or has been agreed to be sold under a conditional sale agreement, and, at a time before the property in the vehicle has
Become vested in the hirer or buyer, he disposes of the vehicle to another person.
(2) Where the disposition referred to in the preceding subsection is to a private purchaser, and he is a purchaser of the Hire-Purchase Act 1964 CH. 53motor vehicle in good faith and without notice of the hire purchase agreement or conditional sale agreement, that disposition, shall have effect as if the title of the owner or seller to the vehicle had been vested in the hirer or buyer immediately before that disposition.
Notice the mention of good faith,, hmm. Has this been repealed then.

Quite a few mistakes like this bluebottle.

LL

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

You're welcome, Fairy Dust 49, and remember what I said in one of my earlier posts.

Things will work out, even though it may not seem that way at the moment.

Bluebottle

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

I understand Bluebottle thank you and also thank you Lindalou .

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi LL,

I've just had a look at the Hire Purchase Act 1965 at Legislation.gov.uk and I'm satisfied that applies to sales where there is no criminal intent involved. In that respect, I agree with you completely about "good faith".

However, in the case of the OP's son, whereas the OP would be covered by the Hire Purchase Act 1965, their son is not. There is clear evidence of criminal intent on the son's part from the circumstances of the case and, under those circumstances, the Hire Purchase Act 1965 does not apply. The Theft Act 1968 and Fraud Act 2006 apply to the son's actions and the "good faith" defence that used to exist under Section 22, Theft Act 1968, with regard to stolen goods, was repealed during the 1990s and does not apply in this case due to its circumstances. Complicated, I know, but that's English Law for you - nothing's ever simple.

I hope this clears up any confusion that may have arisen.

Bluebottle

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi LL,

I've just had a look at the Hire Purchase Act 1965 at Legislation.gov.uk and I'm satisfied that applies to sales where there is no criminal intent involved. In that respect, I agree with you completely about "good faith".

However, in the case of the OP's son, whereas the OP would be covered by the Hire Purchase Act 1965, their son is not. There is clear evidence of criminal intent on the son's part from the circumstances of the case and, under those circumstances, the Hire Purchase Act 1965 does not apply. The Theft Act 1968 and Fraud Act 2006 apply to the son's actions and the "good faith" defence that used to exist under Section 22, Theft Act 1968, with regard to stolen goods, was repealed during the 1990s and does not apply in this case due to its circumstances. Complicated, I know, but that's English Law for you - nothing's ever simple.

I hope this clears up any confusion that may have arisen.

Bluebottle

Firstly you said "Good faith no longer applies" i accept your appology.

YOU are right in saying that if there is any criminality in the sons actions the clause will not apply. Because the tilte would not have passed to him prior to the sale(see the act).
But this has to be proven, if the police cannot be convinced that his son did not have the permission of the OP then the sale would be legal and the sale also.

LL

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi again Bluebottle and LL have just had my files out scouring for the paper work regarding the car and have just come across a letter from the dvla swansea and it states that I informed them that I am no longer the registered keeper or I have scrapped the car ,the letter is dated 5th August 2010 and yet I loaned the car to my son march 2010.I now think he had every intention of doing the dirty deed which he had well organised behind my back.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I am sorry now that I took his word when he told me he changed the log book into his name just to get insurance so he could drive the car,I did tell him when he informed me about the log book name change that he done an offence but I thought not much of it at the time what a fool I was must have had dark glasses on .

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Have now found the terms and conditions of agreement stating that the finance company are the owners of the goods and until I buy them I must not try to sell them ,give them away ,use them as security or allow any other person to obtain rights over them .So with all that information none of which I consented to shows that he did unlawfully sell the car and it is upto the company to report it as stolen.

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi Fairy Dust 49,

You don't need to get the registered owner/keeper's details changed on a V5C in order to obtain motor insurance. In all the 30 years I have been driving, I have never been asked for the V5C when arranging insurance. Your son could have driven your car as a "Named Driver". My sister was a Named Driver on one of my previous cars.

Your son committed offences relating to the V5C when he sold the car to a third party. The laws and rules of evidence are pretty complex and that's the way they work. Crazy, eh?

As most of the contributors to this thread have said, the next step is to take all the paperwork, which is now evidence, to the police. Make sure they do not retain the originals. However, you will have to keep the originals in a safe place and will be under a duty to produce them, as evidence, in any court proceedings that follow.

Take things one step at a time and be prepared for some surprises and shocks along the way. You may feel, at the moment, that you are in a long, dark tunnel. The best way to deal with this is to visual each step as a step nearer to the light you can see at the end of the tunnel and with each step you take, the light becomes nearer and brighter. At the end of this all, you will step out into a brighter vista a stronger person. Focus on that and you should come through this difficult time okay.

Bluebottle

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hi again Bluebottle and LL have just had my files out scouring for the paper work regarding the car and have just come across a letter from the dvla swansea and it states that I informed them that I am no longer the registered keeper or I have scrapped the car ,the letter is dated 5th August 2010 and yet I loaned the car to my son march 2010.I now think he had every intention of doing the dirty deed which he had well organised behind my back.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I am sorry now that I took his word when he told me he changed the log book into his name just to get insurance so he could drive the car,I did tell him when he informed me about the log book name change that he done an offence but I thought not much of it at the time what a fool I was must have had dark glasses on .

I wonder if having the car acrapped automatically removes it from any HPI record.
May be way off beam here , but ws this a step that would enable the, to sell the car without the buyer being aware, would certainly prove intent if it was.
Just a thought

LL

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Yes I understand what you are saying and will take your advice will also photo copy all paper work I know I have to do this I just need to stay strong .On the upper hand allthough I told the finance company who is Black horse, what happened with the car they have not in a word bounced me for full payment just the dd as arranged ,and the last time I spoke them which was in early Dec 2011 they advised me to go bankrupt and that way I wouldn`t have to finish payments.But I don`t want to go down that road as I have always had good credit history,some companies can get really nasty but as I said give Black horse their dew they have been very polite and understanding with me .

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Dont forget to mention the above to the police

The best of luck.
Not that you will need it

LL