DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15 - won

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

I sent copies to both the court and DEAL/CEL within the deadline as required

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

DEAL/CEL never sent me copies of photos of my vehicle entering or leaving car park as they were ordered

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

I have just been going through all the paperwork regarding this (for the millionth time) and found a letter that i had overlooked somehow. It is dated 11/01/13 from a company called Debt Recovery Plus Ltd saying that THEY are acting for CEL. I believe that the reason it was overlooked because it had been put in a drawer and forgotten about as it was over a year later before i heard anything else from CEL/DEAL. I wonder how it got passed from DRPL to DEAL ?????

[mystery1]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

They didn't actually own the debt though so it's irrelevant.

Concentrate on the penalty aspect. Para 66 onwards http://13oldsquare.com/files/documen...proved_jdg.pdf

The sign they provided says "to deter abuse" It is clear it is not contractual, an attempt to set losses or anything else. It is purely to deter a breach of the parking conditions they want to set. A non government company (or anyone that is not a statutory body) cannot fine people. The charge is clearly a penalty and as such you cannot be held liable.





In the event they do not show up (fingers crossed) you will need to ask for costs. You get £90 for missing a days work plus travelling and parking. Nothing else unless they acted unreasonably. http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...s/part27#27.14

Costs on the small claims track
27.14
(1) This rule applies to any case which has been allocated to the small claims track unless paragraph (5) applies.
(Rules 46.11 and 46.13 make provision in relation to orders for costs made before a claim has been allocated to the small claims track)
(2) The court may not order a party to pay a sum to another party in respect of that other party’s costs, fees and expenses, including those relating to an appeal, except –
(a) the fixed costs attributable to issuing the claim which –
(i) are payable under Part 45; or
(ii) would be payable under Part 45 if that Part applied to the claim;
(b) in proceedings which included a claim for an injunction or an order for specific performance a sum not exceeding the amount specified in Practice Direction 27 for legal advice and assistance relating to that claim;
(c) any court fees paid by that other party;
(d) expenses which a party or witness has reasonably incurred in travelling to and from a hearing or in staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing;
(e) a sum not exceeding the amount specified in Practice Direction 27 for any loss of earnings or loss of leave by a party or witness due to attending a hearing or to staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing;
(f) a sum not exceeding the amount specified in Practice Direction 27 for an expert’s fees;
(g) such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably; and
(h) the Stage 1 and, where relevant, the Stage 2 fixed costs in rule 45.18 where –
(i) the claim was within the scope of the Pre-Action Protocol for Low Value Personal Injury Claims in Road Traffic Accidents (‘the RTA Protocol’) or the Pre-action Protocol for Low Value Personal Injury (Employers’ Liability and Public Liability) Claims (‘the EL/PL Protocol’);
(ii) the claimant reasonably believed that the claim was valued at more than the small claims track limit in accordance with paragraph 4.1(4) of the relevant Protocol; and
(iii) the defendant admitted liability under the process set out in the relevant Protocol; but
(iv) the defendant did not pay those Stage 1 and, where relevant, Stage 2 fixed costs; and
(i) in an appeal, the cost of any approved transcript reasonably incurred.
(3) A party’s rejection of an offer in settlement will not of itself constitute unreasonable behaviour under paragraph (2)(g) but the court may take it into consideration when it is applying the unreasonableness test.
(4) The limits on costs imposed by this rule also apply to any fee or reward for acting on behalf of a party to the proceedings charged by a person exercising a right of audience by virtue of an order under section 11 of the Courts and Legal Services Act 19901 (a lay representative).



So you need to say why they have behaved unreasonably. I assume, no letter before action, not turning up and making a case, the costs letter they sent etc etc

If the judge agrees then £18 per hour, 10p per sheet of copying, phone calls, full payment of a days lost wages, travel etc

M1

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Thank you .... you have helped me more than you can ever know ....
I will keep you posted on events.
thanks again

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Well, tomorrow is the big day, hardly slept last night so goodness knows how i will tonight ..... hopefully, i have got everything in place to make a good fight of it. Will keep you all posted, thanks for support.

[mystery1]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

1. Hopefully they won't turn up.

2. Any questions ?


It won't help you sleep, but https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/393970 may help you understand some issues.

Don't forget to ask if the WHOLE debt was assigned (usually it isn't)

M1

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Fingers crossed ...
No more questions thank you, you have done enough for me.

Will make sure i ask about that as i don't want anyone coming after me again sometime in the future.
take care and thanks again

[Amethyst]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Best of luck xxxx

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Well, just got back from Chelmsford .
We Got to court by 9.30 (hearing due at 10.00) 2 hrs set aside for the hearing. waited under terrible stress of whole matter. Went into courtroom just after 10, Judge Rodger after exchange of pleasantries asked if i had got the letter? What letter? No, I haven't had any letter. He then said that he had just recd a letter (9.50) from DEAL stating that they were discontinuing the case against me ......... therefore, case to be 'Struck out'. I said to him, "What does all this mean then?".He replied that i should be pleased as it is all ended now. There is no case to answer.
I then asked what i could claim against DEL/CEL and he replied that i could not claim anything. He said that he had read my counter claim but that i should be pleased that its over. I asked about my expences etc that i had listed, but he again said that i had no claim and that was it. Go and enjoy Chelmsford.
Guess what, the postman has just delivered a letter from DEAL ... bit late .... but as they say, better late than never.
I am bitterly disappointed than i wasn't able to state my case and WIN, and that in turn would maybe help others in the same situation, but unfortunately, i wasn't able to do so.
So once again to everybody, especially M1 and Amethyst (and The Parking Prankster) for all your help and support and advice.
Take care and if i can help in any way, please let me know.
best regards, Len aka oldsxman

[Amethyst]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

How very frustrating for you and how incredibly unfair you weren't able to request costs for your time for today at the very least.

But, congrats on fighting and winning, even if it wasn't quite as satisfying as you'd hoped.

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Couldn't have done it without your help

[mystery1]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Well, just got back from Chelmsford .
We Got to court by 9.30 (hearing due at 10.00) 2 hrs set aside for the hearing. waited under terrible stress of whole matter. Went into courtroom just after 10, Judge Rodger after exchange of pleasantries asked if i had got the letter? What letter? No, I haven't had any letter. He then said that he had just recd a letter (9.50) from DEAL stating that they were discontinuing the case against me ......... therefore, case to be 'Struck out'. I said to him, "What does all this mean then?".He replied that i should be pleased as it is all ended now. There is no case to answer.
I then asked what i could claim against DEL/CEL and he replied that i could not claim anything. He said that he had read my counter claim but that i should be pleased that its over. I asked about my expences etc that i had listed, but he again said that i had no claim and that was it. Go and enjoy Chelmsford.
Guess what, the postman has just delivered a letter from DEAL ... bit late .... but as they say, better late than never.
I am bitterly disappointed than i wasn't able to state my case and WIN, and that in turn would maybe help others in the same situation, but unfortunately, i wasn't able to do so.
So once again to everybody, especially M1 and Amethyst (and The Parking Prankster) for all your help and support and advice.
Take care and if i can help in any way, please let me know.
best regards, Len aka oldsxman

Glad to win :okay:

Pissed off with the judge on costs.

Try an email to the court to chance your arm for costs.

"In the County Court at xxx

~~ To be put before procedural judge ~~

In the matter of

Deal v XYZ
Claim Number XXX

Dear Sir or Madam,

I have been advised by the court on xxxxx that the listed hearing for this claim was vacated and I understand that this is due to the Claimant's discontinuance.

CPR r.38.6 states that the claimant is liable for the defendant's costs after discontinuance (r.38.6(1)) but that this does not apply to claims allocated to the small claims track (r.38.6(3)). However, the white book states (annotation 38.6.1): "Note that the normal rule as to costs does not apply if a claimant in a case allocated to the small claims track serves a notice of discontinuance although it might be contended that costs should be awarded if a party has behaved unreasonably (r.27.14(2)(d))." I believe it should actually refer to r.27.14(2)(g) as that is the rule which allows the court to award costs for unreasonable behaviour.

On this basis I would like to request a costs order to be made against the Claimant given that DEAL has behaved unreasonably by discontinuing this claim, and also by not submitting any evidence/witness statement in support of their claim other than their claim form, and by not serving me with a copy of their Directions Questionnaire contrary to the court order.

The Defendant had significant costs to prepare the Defence and prepare attendance of the hearing and the costs claimed are as follows:

(explain any expenses here).

Yours faithfully,

XYZ
Defendant"

This won't guarantee you anything but it is worth a shot, and as long as you're not taking the p##s with what you're claiming you may have a friendly judge who gives you a costs order.

£18 per hour is the litigant in person. £190 was awarded to 1 person. http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/prankster-runs-out-of-deal-headlines.html

M1

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15

Yes, glad of end result, but in a strange kind of way, it doesn't quite feel like winning .... I know i was nervous and uptight about it, but once i got there, i was up for the fight. The way it ended did not give me the chance to say all the bad things about the way DEAL/CEL go about their business and all the intimidating tactics they use. Also, this way still leaves things up in the air for any future unfortunates who come across them. I was hoping to get a good result that might go some way to deterring these some of bully boys. But, Hey, at least i hope to get a good nights sleep tonight .. lol
Thanks again for everything and as i said earlier, anything you think i might be of use for, then please let me know.
regards, len

[oldsxman]

Re: DEAL - Chelmsford County Court Monday 16th March 15 - won

Confirmation letter received today - Weds 25/03/15 - from Chelmsford CC informing me that The claim is dismissed ..... Thank you everyone