Claim form from CEL ( Civil enforcement LTD)

[des8]

des8 I am filling in the questionnaire and would appreciate some advice if possible.

1- What do I put in 'Name of court' box/
As in the court claim sent you

2- Part C. Track - Can I tick no and give the reason that i was not the driver; I am registered keeper and as CEL are pursuing me as driver not keeper the claim is void?
No .. you tick "yes". This is the lowest level of court and you put nothing in the box

3- determination without a hearing - Should I tick yes or no? Would it be better to force a hearing even if they push the small claims paper determination pilot and over rule me? To show I'm serious about not taking responsibility? They should be made to answer why they pursued me as driver after i told them i wasn't.
You most definitely ask for a court hearing as there are questions of fact which need to be decided.
In any case I would always prefer to be on hand to explain my position .... you can't do that at a paper hearing!

4- Can/should i refuse mediation on the ground I have nothing to mediate as I did not commit the offence, I wasn't the driver?
Do not refuse mediation ... that could backfire on you later if the question of costs arises

5- Can I write to the court and ask why they are allowing CEL to pursue me as a driver when i am merely the registered keeper and they are clearly not following the legal procedure?
Do not write to the court. This is a matter the court will rule upon when they have heard evidence from both sides

These people really need holding to account for their unlawful actions and judges should be harsh on them. They are bullies and harass people.

Agreed, and the best way of holding them to account is by resisting in court


For F1 enter the name of your local court
Reason is" as per CPR 26.2 I am a litigant in person & defendant


PS when you told CEL you were not the driver, did you give them the driver's name & address?

[Alice1604]

Agreed, and the best way of holding them to account is by resisting in court


For F1 enter the name of your local court
Reason is" as per CPR 26.2 I am a litigant in person & defendant


PS when you told CEL you were not the driver, did you give them the driver's name & address?

Thank you for the advice, as always you are brilliant !

No I didn't tell them the drivers name. From what I remember I was given the option to state I wasn't the driver and followed the link to do just that. To be honest I don't know whether I was given an opportunity to submit drivers name at that point, but I wouldn't have been able to because I didn't know which of my sons carers was driving at the time.

[des8]

If you read page 2 of the Parking Charge Notice I think you will find it states that if you were not the driver you should notify CEL of the driver's name & address so CEL could pursue the driver.
As you did not give CEL that information the law entitles them to pursue you, the registered keeper.

As far as I can see your only defence to the claim as presented in court is that it does not name you as keeper
Now county court small claims track is a bit of a lottery and the judge could agree you weren't the driver but are still liable for the charge as you are the keeper
The claim form doesn't actually refer to you as the driver or the keeper, so it is difficult to anticipate how the judge will decide.

Because of your personal situation you might prefer to try and reach an agreement at mediation

[Alice1604]

Hi des8 I am filling in the directional questionnaire and am unsure what to put in each section. I'm very sorry but its confusing me. I cant find where to put 'as per CPR 26.2 I am a litigant in person & defendant' as advised by you above. Could you possibly advise what to put in each section again?

Part D1 'Suitability for determination without a hearing'
Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, such as; by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the
parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision? I HAVE PUT NO? Then it asks 'if no state why' what should I put?

[Alice1604]

des8 I have filled in as much as I can but have come across this at the end ''Once you have completed this form, please return it to the court at
the address shown on the form N149A Notice of proposed allocation to Small Claims Track." I dont have this form? I have downloaded the directional questionnaire in advance of the courts instructions. What should I do?

[des8]

Hi des8 I am filling in the directional questionnaire and am unsure what to put in each section. I'm very sorry but its confusing me. I cant find where to put 'as per CPR 26.2 I am a litigant in person & defendant' as advised by you above. Could you possibly advise what to put in each section again?
At Question F1 enter the name of your local court
Reason is" as per CPR 26.2 I am a litigant in person & defendant"

Part D1 'Suitability for determination without a hearing'
Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, such as; by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the
parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision? I HAVE PUT NO? Then it asks 'if no state why' what should I put?

Reason is: "there are questions of fact which need to be decided".

Send form to same court to which you sent your defence.
Also send a copy to claimant

[Alice1604]

Reason is: "there are questions of fact which need to be decided".

Send form to same court to which you sent your defence.
Also send a copy to claimant

des8 Thank you once again for your help and patience. Should I post the forms or would it be ok to email them for a better record?

Can I also ask, If we have mediation is there anything I shouldn't say? I was just going to be truthful and tell them that when I got the first letter I contacted them following their online link and checked the box that said I was not the driver. That I made several attempts by email and phone to both CEL and DCBL to ask why this information had been ignored and I was receiving letters with increased costs and debt collection threats. Can I also say that its my sons wheelchair vehicle and one of his carers would have been driving. That had they acknowledged I was not the driver and given me opportunity I would have given the drivers details so it could have been allocated to the right person. Should I challenge their right to collect on behalf of the car park owners? Should I challenge their process?

I wish I had paid more attention to the online form at the start. It was one that doesn't give you a reply or a copy on your email account. It just goes through to them and you have no way of knowing if the right person has seen it. I genuinely don't think there was an opportunity to provide driver details on the online form, even if I had know who it was at the time of responding. My son has a team of carers so it could have been one of several and I filled the form out late at night after returning home from a late flight.

Sorry for all the Q's but I was a bit confused as I've seen people advised NOT to name the driver. Should I ask if they are chasing me as driver or keeper? If driver should I ask them to prove I was driving?

Thank you again for your help and advice

Ally

[des8]

Email the forms, But make sure you enter in subject line: "case number" "civil Enforcement Ltd v your name" "Defence"

At mediation the mediator is only interested in trying to get both parties agree on a compromise settlement.
The rights and wrongs don't come into the question

You won't speak to the claimant, nor hear what they say, all negotiations are via the mediator
You might want to give a brief outline viz the driver was a carer for your wheel chair bound son, the claimant does not know his identity and has failed to claim against you as the keeper.
However from a purely practical position (avoid wasting a day in court) you are prepared to make a token payment of £??? (if you are that is!)
Don't ask the mediator details of their case, and don't volunteer any of your own.
The mediator is not there to make a judgment nor give legal advice

[Alice1604]

Email the forms, But make sure you enter in subject line: "case number" "civil Enforcement Ltd v your name" "Defence"

At mediation the mediator is only interested in trying to get both parties agree on a compromise settlement.
The rights and wrongs don't come into the question

You won't speak to the claimant, nor hear what they say, all negotiations are via the mediator
You might want to give a brief outline viz the driver was a carer for your wheel chair bound son, the claimant does not know his identity and has failed to claim against you as the keeper.
However from a purely practical position (avoid wasting a day in court) you are prepared to make a token payment of £??? (if you are that is!)
Don't ask the mediator details of their case, and don't volunteer any of your own.
The mediator is not there to make a judgment nor give legal advice

Thanks again Des8 just one last question!

Will the mediator ask me for the name of the driver and should I give the details if they do? I am presuming no at this stage but would appreciate advice on how to respond if this occurs.

[des8]

He should not be asking, and if he does just refuse to give him the name

[Alice1604]

Hi Des the day of my mediation has arrived. My call is between 1:30 -4:30pm. I’m really not sure how to proceed so any advice would be welcome. All I can say to them is that I wasn’t the driver. That I told them and the debt agency this but it was ignored. If they ask for driver name how do I refuse? What should I say. Should I ask if they are pursuing me as driver or registered keeper? Any advice appreciated

[PallasAthena]

The mediator shouldn't ask who the driver was but if the claimant asks then the mediator should relay that to you. So be prepared for that. My answer would just be to repeat that you are not legally required to name the driver and will not do so.

Sorry I haven't gone back through the thread to see what your defences are action being brought against you as keeper.

[des8]

You are under no legal obligation to name the driver and no inference can be drawn from your refusal to identify the driver
Just refuse to identify the driver
Reiterate you were not the driver, who happened to be a carer for your son.
The claim as presented doesn't attempt to pursue you as keeper, so CEL can go whistle

[Alice1604]

The mediator was very nice and didn’t ask for driver. He said they wanted £220 to settle. I laughed and said they absolutely weren’t getting that. I explained I wasn’t the driver, that I contacted them several times through the online contact forms to reiterate this but I had no acknowledgment. I even tried the debt collection company but no response. I explained that’s why I ticked the in court box because I was being ignored.I told him i was absolutely gobsmacked that I was talking to him about something that has absolutely nothing to do with me. That it was my son’s wheelchair vehicle that is driven by his team of carers.

He said they were pursuing me as registered keeper because I’d failed to provide driver name within 28 days. I told him that I responded as soon as I got the letter (it came while I was out of the country if I recall correctly) so it’s possible it was late. But I did try to contact them several times. I said I wanted copies of the letters they had sent saying they were pursuing as registered keeper because none of mine said either. He said he couldn’t ask directly but he could write in the report. I said to save wasting court time I’d give them £5 and he said they told him the lowest they would accept was £100.

I appreciate my son’s carer got a ticket, but they make it so difficult to rectify things. There needs to be a far better system to contact them and they should be required to respond properly and give receipts for every email/call. My son’s carer was quite happy to take his responsibility we just couldn’t change it. I believe at the time of completing the form I didn’t know the driver (he has 8) so was waiting for them to respond to my ‘I’m not the driver’ to pass his name on. My contacting them was also to pass his name on, I just wanted acknowledgment. Any suggestions I can offer to the judge haha. Looks like I’m going to court!

Thanks for your help guys and I shall pester you more when my court date comes! Although mediation guy did say they may accept drivers name to reissue claim rather then go to court! My reply, well then why didn’t they do that in the first instance instead of wasting all our times!

[des8]

It is now too late to provide the driver's name and have the matter transferred to him/her.

You don't really think that Parking Companies want to improve the system in favour of their victims, do you?

Just keep going, and they might discontinue the case at the last moment ... it isn't unknown for them just to not turn up at court on the day!