Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Something to chew on (& spit nails!)
The ACPO guidance (for most areas) is to allow a tolerance for speed cameras/speedometer glitches.
10% + 2mph is the minimum at which they prosecute in a 30 area
According to my math, you could be doing the legal 30mph & still get done.
However, to try & challenge the speed camera calibration is, in my opinion, a very expensive & usually futile exercise.

"Speed Enforcement
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has issued speed enforcement policy guidance, which suggests that enforcement will normally occur when a driver exceeds the speed limit by a particular margin. This is normally 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2 mph. It also sets guidelines for when it would not be appropriate to issue a fixed penalty notice but to issue a summons instead (see below). Note that these are guidelines and that a police officer has discretion to act outside of them providing he acts fairly, consistently and proportionately.

Speed limit: 20 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 24 mph
Summons: 35 mph

Speed limit: 30 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 35 mph
Summons: 50 mph "

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/...nalty_notices/

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Boy racers Charity slow down for speed cameras as someone who drives about 40k miles a year I see thousands slow down for a camera and speed up after a friend of a oPlice interceptor as seen on TV I have heard of to many idiots causing injury or death through speed and bad deriving many under 25

Agreed, Wales, but then again, I got caught via a static camera allegedly doing the minimum speed, so a fixed penalty/speed awareness ('35 in a 30' offence), & I'm not a boy rac.............erm....... err.........innit blud!

[wales01man]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Charity What speed did they say you were doing?

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Charity What speed did they say you were doing?

The NIP said 35mph (but I'm certain I was at or maybe just under 30!)

As it's practically impossible to challenge the calibration, I looked at the 14-day rule for service of the NIP, & won.

Case dropped!

[wales01man]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Well done but slow down where theres a speed camera

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Well done but slow down where theres a speed camera

Some years back I had to drive my OH to an appointment.

England were on the telly - a World Cup game.

The roads were deserted!

I was tootling along at about 25mph, as I knew there were several speed cameras on that stretch.

A police car (or rather, the occupants), pulled me over.....................??

When I asked (as nicely as I could) the reason why, I was told I was going too slow, & so was driving without due consideration for other motorists!

(I reckon he wanted to check if I'd been drinking................or maybe he was just plain bored!)

My apologies to CaptainChaos for my blathering on............I'll button my beak now!

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Openlaw15 - I have no idea what Parliament Acts you are talking about. I assumed (yeah I know about assuming) that these letters were pretty much the same for everyone with just the dates/vehicle & offence that changes. You want me to type the entire Reminder Letter or The Single Justice Procedure Notice?

charitynjw - huge apologies - brain fade (I think) - the ONLY reminder letter I have got is: Offence date: 7/12/15 22:31 and Letter dated 3/1/16

Please - all I need to know at this late stage is WHAT to do with the Single Justice form for the:

a) Fail to give information relating to identification of the driver when required .... contrary to section 172(3) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988
b) Speeding - exceed 30 miles per hour on restricted road - automatic camera device (35mph recorded).

Please help so I can at least TRY to help him (a bit) do the right thing (ish).

Sorry to be a pain - I am just keeping an eye of the timescale of when it has to be returned with 1 answer or the other.

Am I allowed to add my "concerned father" stuff on his behalf if he goes to court, or do I just have to sit there & watch my son act like a total doughnut & not say anything in his defence?

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Openlaw15 - I have no idea what Parliament Acts you are talking about. I assumed (yeah I know about assuming) that these letters were pretty much the same for everyone with just the dates/vehicle & offence that changes. You want me to type the entire Reminder Letter or The Single Justice Procedure Notice?

charitynjw - huge apologies - brain fade (I think) - the ONLY reminder letter I have got is: Offence date: 7/12/15 22:31 and Letter dated 3/1/16

Please - all I need to know at this late stage is WHAT to do with the Single Justice form for the:

a) Fail to give information relating to identification of the driver when required .... contrary to section 172(3) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988
b) Speeding - exceed 30 miles per hour on restricted road - automatic camera device (35mph recorded).

Please help so I can at least TRY to help him (a bit) do the right thing (ish).

Sorry to be a pain - I am just keeping an eye of the timescale of when it has to be returned with 1 answer or the other.

Am I allowed to add my "concerned father" stuff on his behalf if he goes to court, or do I just have to sit there & watch my son act like a total doughnut & not say anything in his defence?

Read the posts numbered 11 & 26.

You can assist your son in court. What exactly you can do i can't remember it might just be to assist rather than speak on his behalf. However if the deal i suggest is done all that is left to say in court is "guilty" and then ask them to give the fixed penalty rather than the normal fine. It'll be 3 points either way.

M1

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Openlaw15 - I have no idea what Parliament Acts you are talking about. I assumed (yeah I know about assuming) that these letters were pretty much the same for everyone with just the dates/vehicle & offence that changes. You want me to type the entire Reminder Letter or The Single Justice Procedure Notice?

charitynjw - huge apologies - brain fade (I think) - the ONLY reminder letter I have got is: Offence date: 7/12/15 22:31 and Letter dated 3/1/16

Please - all I need to know at this late stage is WHAT to do with the Single Justice form for the:

a) Fail to give information relating to identification of the driver when required .... contrary to section 172(3) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988
b) Speeding - exceed 30 miles per hour on restricted road - automatic camera device (35mph recorded).

Please help so I can at least TRY to help him (a bit) do the right thing (ish).

Sorry to be a pain - I am just keeping an eye of the timescale of when it has to be returned with 1 answer or the other.

Am I allowed to add my "concerned father" stuff on his behalf if he goes to court, or do I just have to sit there & watch my son act like a total doughnut & not say anything in his defence?

For litigants in person (ie your son defends himself without a lawyer), you can be to your son what is called a McKenzie friend, the essence of which is that you can ask for disclosure of the prosecution's evidence, take notes of the proceedings as they happen, ie what would you like to advise your son, what seems important to you, you can then 'whisper instructions.' For instance, you would beckon your son to you and whisper. This is the guidance issued to judges in England and Wales but the Magistrate is only a lay person. However, his/ her (the Magistrate's) clerk is a legally qualified professional. You can raise this matter with Magistrate panel or the court officer etc. Using the McKenzie Friend this way, you can help your son (the litigant in person) defend the case.

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

mystery1 thank you

Post 11 (by your good self) says (I think) don't send anything back at all (the Single Justice form) and wait for a court date? Then turn up, speak to the prosecutor to try to get rid of the failure part but plead guilty for the speeding part.

Post 26 seems to be about the craziest excuses given & Freddie Flintoff - my son isn't a celebrity yet, so I can't see the relevance of that post, sorry.

I just need to know what he should do now to get the ball rolling.

Yes, he'll get more points. Yes, he'll get another fine and Yes, he will lose his licence. He knows that.

I'm just wondering whether it will make any difference for him to fill/not fill the form out, plead guilty or not guilty on the single Justice form and what else to write on it to lessen the devastation to his life! (his words not mine).

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

I must have been tired. I meant 28.

Post 11 (by your good self) says (I think) don't send anything back at all (the Single Justice form) and wait for a court date? Then turn up, speak to the prosecutor to try to get rid of the failure part but plead guilty for the speeding part.

:okay:

If he fills in the form he will probably be disqualified for totting up which is a 6 month ban and face much higher insurance costs for 5 years. He doesn't want to be disqualified i'd say.

M1

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Post 26 seems to be about the craziest excuses given & Freddie Flintoff - my son isn't a celebrity yet, so I can't see the relevance of that post, sorry.



I'm just wondering whether it will make any difference for him to fill/not fill the form out, plead guilty or not guilty on the single Justice form and what else to write on it to lessen the devastation to his life! (his words not mine).

You were putting feelers out for mitigating circumstances.

The post outlined some examples, probably via very expensive solicitors, & some worked as mitigation.

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

ah I think I sort of get it now, charitynjw thank you - I just have to get a very expensive lawyer to talk the court out of a ridiculously expensive 5mph over the limit speeding fine.

Hmmmm

Maybe not. Thanks anyway.

If I say anything if it goes to court it'll be "he is an idiot for doing it twice" or something along those lines hahahaha

- - - Updated - - -

Finally (probably) - mystery1 - is he filling in the form pleading not guilty and then when we arrive at court, having a word with the prosecutor to try to get the failure to be dropped if he accepts the speeding part?

Then hope for the best.

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

ah I think I sort of get it now, charitynjw thank you - I just have to get a very expensive lawyer to talk the court out of a ridiculously expensive 5mph over the limit speeding fine.

Hmmmm

Maybe not. Thanks anyway.

If I say anything if it goes to court it'll be "he is an idiot for doing it twice" or something along those lines hahahaha

- - - Updated - - -

Finally (probably) - mystery1 - is he filling in the form pleading not guilty and then when we arrive at court, having a word with the prosecutor to try to get the failure to be dropped if he accepts the speeding part?

Then hope for the best.

The form is for if you wish to do it by post and not show up at court. Bin it.

Talk to the prosecutor and say " If you drop the failure to furnish i'll agree to go guilty for the speeding" Do it before the judge sits down. Job done. Then go in look sorry for the court and plead guilty to speeding if the prosecution has already said the FTF is dropped. Then say due to administration issues he couldn't accept the fixed penalty and would the court kindly follow p 189 from the sentencing guidelines and penalise accordingly (worth asking but they don't have to)

He'll get a letter when his license is revoked and he'll be able to resit asap.

If he wants to call the judge an arsehole make sure he is well away from the court, no matter what.

M1

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Thank you very much - I'll make my son sweat for the court summons letter!

And afterwards, I'll call HIM an arsehole for trying to hide the initial fines & making it worse.

Oh yes, one bit of good news - I DID recently manage to get his £500+ (5 of them) parking tickets (again ignored by him) reduced back to £150 by writing nice apologetic letters to the council & them getting rid of 2 of them completely & reducing the other 3 to £50 each