Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

[des8]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

3 Revocation of licences.


(1)Where the Secretary of State receives—


(a)a notice sent to him under section 2(2)(a) of particulars required to be endorsed on the counterpart of a person’s licence, or


(b)a person’s licence and its counterpart sent to him in accordance with section 2(2)(b) or (4),


the Secretary of State must by notice served on that person revoke the licence.
(2)A revocation under subsection (1) shall have effect from a date specified in the notice of revocation which may not be earlier than the date of service of that notice.



A licence is not revoked unless and until the SOS serves the required notice.

M1

Agreed ; but REVOCATION is not the same as DISQUALIFICATION

The court will disqualify with immediate effect then pass the details to SOS who will revoke.
If one is only disqualified, at the end of the period of disqualification the licence will be returned on application.
If the licence is revoked a new driving test has to be taken.

[wales01man]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

The moral of the story is don't speed or withold details of driver Take the punishment and learn the lesson

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Agreed ; but REVOCATION is not the same as DISQUALIFICATION

The court will disqualify with immediate effect then pass the details to SOS who will revoke.
If one is only disqualified, at the end of the period of disqualification the licence will be returned on application.
If the licence is revoked a new driving test has to be taken.

Indeed but he is very unlikely to be disqualified if he does the deal to plead guilty to speeding if they drop the FTF which is usually acceptable.

M1

[des8]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Conversely then if he can persuade the court to impose a ban, rather than points, he could recover his licence without the need to retake his test, but would have to walk home after court!

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Well that is true but i'd rather resit a test which would be cheaper.

M1

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Blimey - so many things to try to pass onto him.

I will, of course, be driving him to court (if it goes there) as I SORN'd his car as soon as I found all these speeding things (plus the fact that he couldn't afford his insurance so went horrendously overdrawn & ended up cancelling it). Aaarrrggghhhh.

He now has until the 2nd of June to either return this Single Justice Procedure Notice with a Guilty or Not Guilty plea.

I understand that you guys know what you are talking about, but he is 21 & has NO idea what it all means (and to be honest, neither do I really).

What exactly should he do now? Preferably in words of one syllable or less hahahahaha.

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Hi @mystery1 & @des8

I can't get my head around some of the facts stated & implied by OP; what am I missing?

Date of offence 07/12/2016.
NIP must be served 21/12/2016 at the latest.

Failure to give info s172.
Seems like the 28 days were up by 12/01/2016 (post #5)
So it must have been sent in the post minimum 30 days beforehand - (2 days for postal delivery - from my reading, the 28 days is from when the s172 is deemed served).
Therefore 13/12/2015?
If so, that would be 6 days after the offence, & 8 days before the NIP period expires.
In real life, I believe many speed cameras are of the old type, & so the police struggle to get NIPs out on time, let alone 6 days after the offence?

& why would they send a reminder for the s172? If not responded to within 28 days, surely that's a slam-dunk?

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

charitynjw - sadly, I have obviously missed ALL of the summons/letters etc. that came through the post as my son hid some of them & got to the post before I did - I really have no idea - the important thing to me is that he sat on the letters for so long, it's gone beyond trying to find out the dates of each offence, so I am just clutching blindly as to what I have got in a nice little folder marked "X's police/court stuff" which has got very little in the way of information.

The only letter other than the Single Justice Prosecution Notice is a letter dated 03/01/2016 where it says

"Reminder Letter. A Notice of Intended Prosecution and request for driver details was recently sent to you relating to the above referenced alleged traffic offence. To date our records show that this matter is still outstanding and we have not received a response in writing ... Your liability remains outstanding and that you are advised to respond to the NIP without further delay by supplying the driver details. If a response is not received within seven days from the date of this letter your file will be processed for a court hearing ...."

The dates on that letter are:

Offence date & time: 07/12/2015 22:31
Reminder letter date: 03/01/2016
Single Justice Procedure Notice letter date: 12/05/2016

Other than that, I am afraid the initial NIP has been lost/hidden/thrown away by my son.

I think it is inevitable that he will either plead guilty by post or go to court & do the same. It is just I need to know what to tell him to write on the Single Justice thing to return within the allowed time.

I am sorry that there is so little "proper" information & dates, but sadly, he got rid of them/hid them & I have never seen the initial letters.

The first speeding fine he received & ignored - we got a court date where he was fined £200 & got 3 points. Now we've got this speeding/failure to provide driver info form.

And guess what?

He tells me that he was stopped by the police some time earlier this year & they said they were going to report him for having insufficient tread on one of his tyres. And yes, there is another reminder letter at home for THAT one too. I haven't received the Single Justice letter for THAT one yet!!!

Again, I think that trying to work out dates & if they sent the letters in time or whatever it is is far too long gone - it is really just what to write/plead on the S.J.P.N.

I have told him that he has to accept & deal with whatever they decide & hopefully it will teach him an expensive lesson, so if anyone can advise WHAT he needs to plead/write on the SJPN form for the Fail to give info & Speeding things, that would be very helpful, thank you.

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

What about the 'reminder' letter 13/02/2016? (post #5)

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Something to chew on (& spit nails!)
The ACPO guidance (for most areas) is to allow a tolerance for speed cameras/speedometer glitches.
10% + 2mph is the minimum at which they prosecute in a 30 area
According to my math, you could be doing the legal 30mph & still get done.
However, to try & challenge the speed camera calibration is, in my opinion, a very expensive & usually futile exercise.

Captainchaos

You're omitting details. Please cite the entire Parliament Acts not just the sections. Stop also making assumptions about your son being banned from driving. When I was his age, i probably did much worse including my driving!

Charity, the Magistrate is likely to make an adverse inference from the early speeding offence. However, as you quite rightly say, he should not have been convicted of that offence as his speed in a 30 mph should have taken into consideration the regional chief of police guidelines, which on these facts is said speed plus guidelines: (speed (30) + 10% + 2) = 35 mph. My view is that he should not be banned from driving. He only went over by 5 mph but technically because speedos could be wrong the law permits 10% anyway except if it's calibrated vehicle, ie tacho-graph type.

The Magistrate as I said has discretion with driving bans. The person is only 21, he has 1 speeding conviction, fine, and 3 points. My view is argue that the first conviction was unfair as it was still within the parameters of the chief of police guidelines for speeding. Unless someone has studied criminal law on this thread, to say there is 'no mitigating circumstances' is like me commenting on the architecture of the Eiffel Tower when I have never studied architecture! If you cannot think like a lawyer perhaps it's best to say nothing. Strict liability offences automatically have mitigation presumed by Parliament as they're by nature 'strict liability' ie not mens rea (intent) offences. So the law has to be flexible when sentencing.

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...-revealed.html

Some of Britain's most extreme speeding excuses revealed

.....................................

Andrew 'Freddie' Flintoff escapes ban for speeding

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-28972176

[wales01man]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

If this goes to a magistrate local court reports round here show that they dish out heavy fines costs and points for these offences unless the driver has very good legal representation he will suffer the same fate Magistrates come down hard on boy racers who ignore the law

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Boy racers don't drive at 35 mph in a 30.

Arguing that the NIP is faulty, which it doesn't appear to be anyway, would not allow the deal to be done to get rid of the FTF which is the real danger in this case.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...item/speeding/

3 points and a band a fine.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...-for-disorder/ Could also ask for the original fixed penalty but i'm not sure that really applies here.

M1

[charitynjw]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

If this goes to a magistrate local court reports round here show that they dish out heavy fines costs and points for these offences unless the driver has very expensive legal representation he will suffer the same fate Magistrates come down hard on boy racers who ignore the law

http://www.express.co.uk/expressyour...day-speed-king

The £10,000 a day speed king

- - - Updated - - -

If this goes to a magistrate local court reports round here show that they dish out heavy fines costs and points for these offences unless the driver has very expensive legal representation he will suffer the same fate Magistrates come down hard on boy racers who ignore the law

http://www.express.co.uk/expressyour...day-speed-king

The £10,000 a day speed king

:shocked::jaw::faint:

[wales01man]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Boy racers Charity slow down for speed cameras as someone who drives about 40k miles a year I see thousands slow down for a camera and speed up after a friend of a oPlice interceptor as seen on TV I have heard of to many idiots causing injury or death through speed and bad deriving many under 25