Received County court claim Form for a PCN but I was not the driver?

[charitynjw]

Nope

It just says "You should tell us the name of the driver......"

& it's a bl**dy cheek!
As stated previously, there is no legal obligation for the RK to reveal who was driving.
The parking co has the legal burden of proving their claim.

That said, a judge might ask "If you were not the driver, who was?"

If it were me I might say "I honestly can't remember. Others often use the vehicle because...... [reason]"
Give it some thought!

[ostell]

Have you actually read what 9 (2) (e) actually says? Not the same as you quoted. It's an invitation to pay or identify the driver

In this case the driver was actually someone else, living abroad, so can in fact be safely named.

[MiniB]

Hi All

Is this any better?




I am xxx,the defendant in this matter and the registered keeper of vehicle xxx.

I deny I am liable for the entirety of the claim on the following grounds:

The Claimant has failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to be able to transfer liability for the event from the driver at the time to the keeper.




The failures are:


1. No period of parking specified contrary to 9 (2) (a). Timings from photos of a car moving In front of a camera is, by definition, not parking.

2. Invitation to pay is not in the format required by 9 (2) (e)

3. Failure to give the keeper liability warning required by 9 (2) (f)

4. Failed to specify the date sent as specified by 9 (2) (I)

Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 specifies the following.


1: 9(2) (a) The notice must specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.

2: 9(2) (e)The notice must state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper —

(I) to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii) if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver.

3: 9(2) (f) Warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(I) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver

4: 9(2)(i) specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

5: The above Listed Failures of the Claimant and the following statements conclude that I can not be held liable for this claim:

6: I the defendant and the Owner of XXXXXXX was not the driver at the time of the alleged contravention and

details of the driver have been given to the claimant.

7: The vehicle in question was NOT Parked at any point within the times specified by the claimant.



The vague Particulars of the Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.


STATEMENT OF TRUTH

I confirm that the contents of this Defence are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.



xxx
XX feb 2019

[MiniB]

BTW this is for your reference.

The letter below was sent to them on 20th Feb as per Ostell's advice.



Dear to whom it may concern.

with reference to the above.

I am writing to you to suggest that you withdraw your claim as there is no possibility of success as your client has failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to be able to transfer liability for the event from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.




The failures are:

• No period of parking specified contrary to 9 (2) (a). Timings from photos of a car moving in front of a camera is, by definition, not parking.
• Invitation to pay is not in the format required by 9 (2) (e)
• Failure to give the keeper liability warning required by 9 (2) (f)
• Failed to specify the date sent as specified by 9 (2) (i)

I wasNOT the driver at the time, the driver is: xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxx, xxxxxx, xxxxx <.(address of the driver in other country)

To continue with the claim knowing that you cannot win is unreasonable and full costs will be claimed for your behaviour.

Yours Faithfully

[ostell]

Can you show that the vehicle was not parked there at the time?

[charitynjw]

My guess is that they send out a pre-scripted standard response, aimed at pulling the wool over your eyes.

[MiniB]

Can you show that the vehicle was not parked there at the time?

I don't have any evidence to show that the car was not parked but nor do they either.


The letter I sent to them for your Reference:

Dear to whom it may concern.

with reference to the above.


I am writing to you to request all the documents that you intend to use in court in order to narrow the issues between the parties, as required by the courts.
As the documents will be in your possession in order to perform due diligence before issuing the claim I require that they are delivered to me within 7 days.



I received the info request , and in it there was no proof of the Car being parked.
So they cant prove as it was not the case.

[MiniB]

Can you show that the vehicle was not parked there at the time?

Surprise! they actually did sent me this:



Good morning,



Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted.



Please find attached all evidence we are in receipt of from our Client pertaining to the contravention.



As you are aware, a Claim Form was issued to you on 5 February 2019. We ask that you file a formal response to the Claim Form with the County Court.



Failure to respond to the Claim Form may result in further legal proceedings being taken against you.



We trust the above is in order, if you wish to discuss the matter further please contact The Collections Team on 0113 323 1784.



Kind regards,

Litigation Department

[MiniB]

Attached below is the Final Reminder PCN they sent me, which was supplied(attached) in the evidence I requested .

[charitynjw]

Ok

That's nothing to worry about.
Doesn't affect the case at all.

[ostell]

I don't have any evidence to show that the car was not parked but nor do they either.

They have their photographs to show the car was there

[MiniB]

They have their photographs to show the car was there

Yes but that's not proof of parking is it? "Timings from photos of a car moving in front of a camera is, by definition, not parking".

The driver told me that the car park appeared full and he needed a space near the exit due to his bad leg.
He was slowly driving up and down, around until a more convenient space became available, then gave up as he was running late for an appointment elsewhere.

[charitynjw]

You mean something like

http://nebula.wsimg.com/c289944f81b4...&alloworigin=1

Possible.

Bear in mind that this is a county court case; possibly persuasive but not a precedent.

[MiniB]

You mean something like

http://nebula.wsimg.com/c289944f81b4...&alloworigin=1

Possible.

Bear in mind that this is a county court case; possibly persuasive but not a precedent.

Thanks for that Chairtynjw

Im not sure what points I could use yet but ill go through it.

Attached is a Picture of the signage I just took.
The text is so small I couldn't read it in person, I had to expand it on my phone just barley make out some wording.

I can just make out that it mentions "by Parking, waiting or otherwise remaining within this private car park, you enter into a contract with the private operator.......etc.

BTW this signage is displayed at the exit of the car park(entrance and Exit are parallel to each other), there is no signage on entry only when you already have committed yourself to going down the slope, you come to a unlit sign and by then its to dangerous to reverse back up the slope if you disagreed with the terms (that's if you can read it!).

[ostell]

Yes you use the fact that there is no signage at the entrance and even later on there is no signage tht can be safely read from a moving car. If you cannot rerad it with the naked eye then it cannot be part of the contract.