I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Interested to hear the thoughts of others but I would think challenging the 127 in fees would fail

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Just as a matter of interest, which charges do you wish to challenge?

I wondered could I challenge the size of the £127, on the grounds that I had already given them details of my low income, about two thirds of JSA, which they ignored, I could not afford the fares to the court, and their paperwork did not come from a court anyway, it came from Lambeth ?

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

This maybe going off track but is relevant in as much as it could raise an awkward question For Lambeth Council.

I notice your council have split the proportion of summons and liability order costs in a way which maximises the income generated.

Currently the split works so that 96% of the total costs (£127) is charged for sending the automated summons (£122), whereas the work you would think more involved, i.e., making the application at the magistrates' court represents only 4% of the total (£5).

You could ask the council to explain how it justifies splitting the costs so disproportionately, especially when in 2004/05 the summons costs were only 65% of the total and the extra for obtaining the liability order was 35%.

I know why they have done this but it would be entertaining hearing the council's answer.

Anything that makes the backsides of the elected representatives and council officers of London Borough of Lambeth twtich or brings forth a fanfare of trouser trumpets must be worth a go.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

My plan is to


1 Try again to claim JSA or income support, which would enable me to pay more.


2. In the meantime, I want to know if and how I can challenge the extra charges on the basis of my rights under ECHR 6, 17 and 18 ?


I would welcome expert opinion on this article from Tax payers against poverty that refers to Pepper v Hart [1993] AC 593, Wednesbury unreasonableness and remarks made in the House of Lords and the House of Commons

http://www.taxpayersagainstpoverty.o...STERITY.-1.pdf

Very simply, the Convention rights to refer to deal with the following -

Article 6 - Right to A Fair Hearing
Article 17 - Prohibition of Destruction of Convention rights
Article 18 - Restriction of Convention Rights

The other Convention right you need to be aware of is -

Article 1 of the First Protocol - Protection of Possessions

The process local authorities use to obtain Liability Orders and the court hearings breach Article 6 as there is no way, by anyone's standards, it can be said that any person subject to such a hearing receives a fair hearing when the local authority is running the hearing, not the court. Article 17 reinforces Article 6 by making it inalienable, that is, cannot be taken away from you, and Article 18 prevents your rights being restricted, other than under exceptional circumstances. Allowing local authorities to behave in a corrupt and fraudulent manner is not something that justifies restriction of Convention rights.

Just as a matter of interest, which charges do you wish to challenge?

[outlawlgo]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

This maybe going off track but is relevant in as much as it could raise an awkward question For Lambeth Council.

I notice your council have split the proportion of summons and liability order costs in a way which maximises the income generated.

Currently the split works so that 96% of the total costs (£127) is charged for sending the automated summons (£122), whereas the work you would think more involved, i.e., making the application at the magistrates' court represents only 4% of the total (£5).

You could ask the council to explain how it justifies splitting the costs so disproportionately, especially when in 2004/05 the summons costs were only 65% of the total and the extra for obtaining the liability order was 35%.

I know why they have done this but it would be entertaining hearing the council's answer.

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

My plan is to


1 Try again to claim JSA or income support, which would enable me to pay more.


2. In the meantime, I want to know if and how I can challenge the extra charges on the basis of my rights under ECHR 6, 17 and 18 ?


I would welcome expert opinion on this article from Tax payers against poverty that refers to Pepper v Hart [1993] AC 593, Wednesbury unreasonableness and remarks made in the House of Lords and the House of Commons

http://www.taxpayersagainstpoverty.o...STERITY.-1.pdf

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Without being rude may I ask what you do for a living?

I am self-employed as an academic tutor, private A level coaching etc, which I get through an agency. Obviously the two months before the exams are busy, then nothing for over half a year. I am also self-employed as a film extra, every couple of months I get a job doing as a member of a crowd or passer by in a film or tv drama, for which I get anywhere between 100 and 1000 pounds depending on how many days and how long. This is paid usually 6 - 10 weeks after the filming has been done with hefty deductions for commission. I am also a composer, so I am registered as a publisher and music rights holder in a partnership, but there is no income as such - although there could be if people started buying the music - which they aren't at the moment.

So it is well nigh impossible to fill in a DWP form saying how many hours do you do a week ?

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Without being rude may I ask what you do for a living?

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Benefits Calculator - Turn2us

www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits

Why not put your income and benefits into this calculator to check if you are entitled to any form of Income Support?

Because of the sporadic nature of my income - the figure of 30 - 50 per week is an average, and the benefit system does not include data fields for this sort of life

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Benefits Calculator - Turn2us

www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits

Why not put your income and benefits into this calculator to check if you are entitled to any form of Income Support?

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

What is a 'forme' document in this context ? It is a document that has the same details on every copy, save for say, names and addresses or amounts.

What kind of questions are raised by them ignoring my income statements, and what can I/should I do about them ?Liability Orders are supposed to be a last resort, not default option. It could be argued that seeking a Liability Order when you had informed them of your financial position was an abuse of legal process.

I can't afford £5 per week out of about the £35 per week I have to try and live on. Work out how much you can realistically afford per week and put this to them. Remember, the council cannot lawfully refuse any offer of payment of CT arrears.

I am already claiming CT Benefit for most of my liability; the debt has built up because I have been able to pay for the remainder, which is about £2 per week, which I am unable to pay as my income is so low. Pay what you can realistically afford via the Council's automated payment system. This makes it more difficult for the Council to justify the use of bailiffs as you are showing willingness to pay. Bailiffs should only be used for those who won't pay, not those who can't pay.

Responses in red text.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I would bet the letter from the OP was totally ignored as for 127 quid on top of a debt of 112 this is beyond ridiculous have these council morons no common sense

I would not disagree with you in any way on that point, Wales.

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

The summons and other alleged legal document are most likely forme documents. If your statement as to your income has been ignored, it raises questions as to the fairness of the legal proceedings. Have you checked to see if you can claim Council Tax Benefit/Support Allowance? Even if you can only afford £5 per week, you should contact the Council and try to come to some sort of arrangement. Be aware they cannot lawfully refuse any payment towards CT arrears.

What is a 'forme' document in this context ?

What kind of questions are raised by them ignoring my income statements, and what can I/should I do about them ?

I can't afford £5 per week out of about the £35 per week I have to try and live on.

I am already claiming CT Benefit for most of my liability; the debt has built up because I have been able to pay for the remainder, which is about £2 per week, which I am unable to pay as my income is so low.

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I would bet the letter from the OP was totally ignored as for 127 quid on top of a debt of 112 this is beyond ridiculous have these council morons no common sense

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

The summons and other alleged legal document are most likely forme documents. If your statement as to your income has been ignored, it raises questions as to the fairness of the legal proceedings. Have you checked to see if you can claim Council Tax Benefit/Support Allowance? Even if you can only afford £5 per week, you should contact the Council and try to come to some sort of arrangement. Be aware they cannot lawfully refuse any payment towards CT arrears.