I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

They will learn before long that unfortunately HRA applies to them as public bodies, the problem with HRA isn' the Act of itself, it is the lunatic Common Purpose interpretations by some authorities and judges of the act that are the problem. Camoron and the tabloids blame the Act and yawp and bawl for it's repael. HRA is the only thing that is protecting us from the excesses of ConDem policy. Think Labour are any better? they are as riddled with corruption and cronyism as the other two.

Wales,

The Convention rights under the European Convention on Human Rights (aka The Rome Convention) are inalienable, i.e. cannot be taken away from people, and inviolate, i.e. cannot be breached by the State. Some politicians see them as an irritation whilst others see them as an obstacle. They are there for a reason and are there to stop totalitarianism and tyranny ever walking the face of Europe again. There are 47 countries who are signatories to the Convention.

Local authorities are subject to the Convention and Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998, which makes it unlawful for a public authority to act in any way that is incompatible with a person's Convention rights. Denying a person a fair hearing before a court is a blatant breach of Article 6 and, quite possibly, Articles 17 and 18, also. There is no excuse whatsoever. Local authorities know they are subject to ECHR and the HRA in everything they do and they know it. They operate on the principle that the population are ignorant of their rights and the local authorities can get away with it. Not so these days.

As Bizzybob has alluded, ECHR and HRA is, perhaps, the only thing protecting us from the excesses and abuses of government policy.

You are absolutely spot-on about separating the "Can't Pays" from the "Won't Pays". Local authorities are far too ready to go scuttling off to the courts for Liability Orders rather than try and help those who are struggling to pay, which, in the long-run would be better, and crack down on those who refuse to pay.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

So its been ignored for so long why does anyone think it will change now,Labour Conservatives or whoever as we all know do not give a flying F for the people only their buddies and paymasters it will never change

It will only need a few cases to go before the courts to effectively stuff Cameron, Clegg and Milliband and curb the excesses and abuses of the Raving Right and Looney Left. The biggest threat to democracy is the Corporation of London. Within the Houses of Parliament is an office occupied by a person known as The Remembrancer of the City of London who is there to ensure the interests of the City of London are protected. They are unelected. Where do the politicians take their instructions from? The people? No. The Corporation of London, who represent the banks and big corporations. Can the Corporation of London be brought to heel using the ECHR and HRA? Yes. It is a public authority and fully liable to these measures. Evicting the Remembrancer from the Palace of Westminster would be a start and hitting the Corporation of London with a string of ECHR/HRA judgements would weaken them and their influence on English Law. Publicly identifying the politicians and political parties who have prostituted themselves to the City of London would weaken the Corporation of London's influence and hold on Westminster even further. It may take time, but it needs to happen.

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Any chance of scanning and posting up the papers you received, please? Evidence is emerging that the collection of Council Tax is riddled with fraud and corruption and Liability Order hearings breach Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (aka The Rome Convention). In short, the way in which local authorities and magistrates courts conduct the process is almost certainly unlawful.

OK. Before I go any further, I would like to explain that I am a can't pay not a won't pay. If I had the money, I would happily pay up immediately....

Anyway, here is the paperwork :

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

The summons and other alleged legal document are most likely forme documents. If your statement as to your income has been ignored, it raises questions as to the fairness of the legal proceedings. Have you checked to see if you can claim Council Tax Benefit/Support Allowance? Even if you can only afford £5 per week, you should contact the Council and try to come to some sort of arrangement. Be aware they cannot lawfully refuse any payment towards CT arrears.

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I would bet the letter from the OP was totally ignored as for 127 quid on top of a debt of 112 this is beyond ridiculous have these council morons no common sense

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

The summons and other alleged legal document are most likely forme documents. If your statement as to your income has been ignored, it raises questions as to the fairness of the legal proceedings. Have you checked to see if you can claim Council Tax Benefit/Support Allowance? Even if you can only afford £5 per week, you should contact the Council and try to come to some sort of arrangement. Be aware they cannot lawfully refuse any payment towards CT arrears.

What is a 'forme' document in this context ?

What kind of questions are raised by them ignoring my income statements, and what can I/should I do about them ?

I can't afford £5 per week out of about the £35 per week I have to try and live on.

I am already claiming CT Benefit for most of my liability; the debt has built up because I have been able to pay for the remainder, which is about £2 per week, which I am unable to pay as my income is so low.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I would bet the letter from the OP was totally ignored as for 127 quid on top of a debt of 112 this is beyond ridiculous have these council morons no common sense

I would not disagree with you in any way on that point, Wales.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

What is a 'forme' document in this context ? It is a document that has the same details on every copy, save for say, names and addresses or amounts.

What kind of questions are raised by them ignoring my income statements, and what can I/should I do about them ?Liability Orders are supposed to be a last resort, not default option. It could be argued that seeking a Liability Order when you had informed them of your financial position was an abuse of legal process.

I can't afford £5 per week out of about the £35 per week I have to try and live on. Work out how much you can realistically afford per week and put this to them. Remember, the council cannot lawfully refuse any offer of payment of CT arrears.

I am already claiming CT Benefit for most of my liability; the debt has built up because I have been able to pay for the remainder, which is about £2 per week, which I am unable to pay as my income is so low. Pay what you can realistically afford via the Council's automated payment system. This makes it more difficult for the Council to justify the use of bailiffs as you are showing willingness to pay. Bailiffs should only be used for those who won't pay, not those who can't pay.

Responses in red text.

[Inca]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Benefits Calculator - Turn2us

www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits

Why not put your income and benefits into this calculator to check if you are entitled to any form of Income Support?

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Benefits Calculator - Turn2us

www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits

Why not put your income and benefits into this calculator to check if you are entitled to any form of Income Support?

Because of the sporadic nature of my income - the figure of 30 - 50 per week is an average, and the benefit system does not include data fields for this sort of life

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Without being rude may I ask what you do for a living?

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Without being rude may I ask what you do for a living?

I am self-employed as an academic tutor, private A level coaching etc, which I get through an agency. Obviously the two months before the exams are busy, then nothing for over half a year. I am also self-employed as a film extra, every couple of months I get a job doing as a member of a crowd or passer by in a film or tv drama, for which I get anywhere between 100 and 1000 pounds depending on how many days and how long. This is paid usually 6 - 10 weeks after the filming has been done with hefty deductions for commission. I am also a composer, so I am registered as a publisher and music rights holder in a partnership, but there is no income as such - although there could be if people started buying the music - which they aren't at the moment.

So it is well nigh impossible to fill in a DWP form saying how many hours do you do a week ?

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

My plan is to


1 Try again to claim JSA or income support, which would enable me to pay more.


2. In the meantime, I want to know if and how I can challenge the extra charges on the basis of my rights under ECHR 6, 17 and 18 ?


I would welcome expert opinion on this article from Tax payers against poverty that refers to Pepper v Hart [1993] AC 593, Wednesbury unreasonableness and remarks made in the House of Lords and the House of Commons

http://www.taxpayersagainstpoverty.o...STERITY.-1.pdf

[outlawlgo]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

This maybe going off track but is relevant in as much as it could raise an awkward question For Lambeth Council.

I notice your council have split the proportion of summons and liability order costs in a way which maximises the income generated.

Currently the split works so that 96% of the total costs (£127) is charged for sending the automated summons (£122), whereas the work you would think more involved, i.e., making the application at the magistrates' court represents only 4% of the total (£5).

You could ask the council to explain how it justifies splitting the costs so disproportionately, especially when in 2004/05 the summons costs were only 65% of the total and the extra for obtaining the liability order was 35%.

I know why they have done this but it would be entertaining hearing the council's answer.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

My plan is to


1 Try again to claim JSA or income support, which would enable me to pay more.


2. In the meantime, I want to know if and how I can challenge the extra charges on the basis of my rights under ECHR 6, 17 and 18 ?


I would welcome expert opinion on this article from Tax payers against poverty that refers to Pepper v Hart [1993] AC 593, Wednesbury unreasonableness and remarks made in the House of Lords and the House of Commons

http://www.taxpayersagainstpoverty.o...STERITY.-1.pdf

Very simply, the Convention rights to refer to deal with the following -

Article 6 - Right to A Fair Hearing
Article 17 - Prohibition of Destruction of Convention rights
Article 18 - Restriction of Convention Rights

The other Convention right you need to be aware of is -

Article 1 of the First Protocol - Protection of Possessions

The process local authorities use to obtain Liability Orders and the court hearings breach Article 6 as there is no way, by anyone's standards, it can be said that any person subject to such a hearing receives a fair hearing when the local authority is running the hearing, not the court. Article 17 reinforces Article 6 by making it inalienable, that is, cannot be taken away from you, and Article 18 prevents your rights being restricted, other than under exceptional circumstances. Allowing local authorities to behave in a corrupt and fraudulent manner is not something that justifies restriction of Convention rights.

Just as a matter of interest, which charges do you wish to challenge?