I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Any chance of scanning and posting up the papers you received, please? Evidence is emerging that the collection of Council Tax is riddled with fraud and corruption and Liability Order hearings breach Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (aka The Rome Convention). In short, the way in which local authorities and magistrates courts conduct the process is almost certainly unlawful.

OK. Before I go any further, I would like to explain that I am a can't pay not a won't pay. If I had the money, I would happily pay up immediately....

Anyway, here is the paperwork :

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

So its been ignored for so long why does anyone think it will change now,Labour Conservatives or whoever as we all know do not give a flying F for the people only their buddies and paymasters it will never change

It will only need a few cases to go before the courts to effectively stuff Cameron, Clegg and Milliband and curb the excesses and abuses of the Raving Right and Looney Left. The biggest threat to democracy is the Corporation of London. Within the Houses of Parliament is an office occupied by a person known as The Remembrancer of the City of London who is there to ensure the interests of the City of London are protected. They are unelected. Where do the politicians take their instructions from? The people? No. The Corporation of London, who represent the banks and big corporations. Can the Corporation of London be brought to heel using the ECHR and HRA? Yes. It is a public authority and fully liable to these measures. Evicting the Remembrancer from the Palace of Westminster would be a start and hitting the Corporation of London with a string of ECHR/HRA judgements would weaken them and their influence on English Law. Publicly identifying the politicians and political parties who have prostituted themselves to the City of London would weaken the Corporation of London's influence and hold on Westminster even further. It may take time, but it needs to happen.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

They will learn before long that unfortunately HRA applies to them as public bodies, the problem with HRA isn' the Act of itself, it is the lunatic Common Purpose interpretations by some authorities and judges of the act that are the problem. Camoron and the tabloids blame the Act and yawp and bawl for it's repael. HRA is the only thing that is protecting us from the excesses of ConDem policy. Think Labour are any better? they are as riddled with corruption and cronyism as the other two.

Wales,

The Convention rights under the European Convention on Human Rights (aka The Rome Convention) are inalienable, i.e. cannot be taken away from people, and inviolate, i.e. cannot be breached by the State. Some politicians see them as an irritation whilst others see them as an obstacle. They are there for a reason and are there to stop totalitarianism and tyranny ever walking the face of Europe again. There are 47 countries who are signatories to the Convention.

Local authorities are subject to the Convention and Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998, which makes it unlawful for a public authority to act in any way that is incompatible with a person's Convention rights. Denying a person a fair hearing before a court is a blatant breach of Article 6 and, quite possibly, Articles 17 and 18, also. There is no excuse whatsoever. Local authorities know they are subject to ECHR and the HRA in everything they do and they know it. They operate on the principle that the population are ignorant of their rights and the local authorities can get away with it. Not so these days.

As Bizzybob has alluded, ECHR and HRA is, perhaps, the only thing protecting us from the excesses and abuses of government policy.

You are absolutely spot-on about separating the "Can't Pays" from the "Won't Pays". Local authorities are far too ready to go scuttling off to the courts for Liability Orders rather than try and help those who are struggling to pay, which, in the long-run would be better, and crack down on those who refuse to pay.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I was not aware that my benefits are subject to a hearing before the Upper Tier Tribunal ? And what is the Upper Tier Tribunal ? What happened was the JobCentre people said I couldn't claim because I had part-time work ? I suspect now they were lying...

Sorry about that. There is another Beagle who has a case going to the Upper Tier Tribunal and I mixed up the two threads. Been exposed to too much fly spray again. Lol!

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I would hope your right Bluebottle problem is as we know the OP may lose the appeals then if bailiffs are on the case the shite piles up.
I agree its wrong that the council have taken this action while an appeal is ongoing but as we all know its not the Council taken the action its the morons in the CT office who knowing that joe public will pay the cost of their F ups they have nothing to lose.

Have discovered I put a post on the wrong thread, Wales. Amend you post accordingly.

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

To be honest, Wales, the OP's local council has been somewhat premature scuttling off to the magistrates when it appears they are aware of the matter of the OP's benefits being subject to a hearing before the Upper Tier Tribunal. If the Tribunal finds for the OP, the council are stuffed and could face a hefty bill which the taxpayer will no doubt foot.

I was not aware that my benefits are subject to a hearing before the Upper Tier Tribunal ? And what is the Upper Tier Tribunal ? What happened was the JobCentre people said I couldn't claim because I had part-time work ? I suspect now they were lying...

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

So its been ignored for so long why does anyone think it will change now,Labour Conservatives or whoever as we all know do not give a flying F for the people only their buddies and paymasters it will never change

[bizzybob]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

How long has this act been in force in this country?

1998, but it's impact is only really being fully considered and applied in the last few years on the back of these unacoounable quangos, and ConDem policy. If it is applied correctly it could scupper a whole tranche ot policies mooted by the LibLabCon three parties.

Abyway to get back on topic, we need to looka t ways OP can tackle this issue, and see where there may be a benefit or income enhancement.

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

How long has this act been in force in this country?

[bizzybob]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

With respect to you Bluebottle I think the Human rights act and the way councils treat people are some distance apart Councils seem to in some case be run by little hitlers who have all the knowledge? but none of the common sense needed in dealing with people.
The system needs to separate the Cant pays from the Wont pays

They will learn before long that unfortunately HRA applies to them as public bodies, the problem with HRA isn' the Act of itself, it is the lunatic Common Purpose interpretations by some authorities and judges of the act that are the problem. Camoron and the tabloids blame the Act and yawp and bawl for it's repael. HRA is the only thing that is protecting us from the excesses of ConDem policy. Think Labour are any better? they are as riddled with corruption and cronyism as the other two.

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

With respect to you Bluebottle I think the Human rights act and the way councils treat people are some distance apart Councils seem to in some case be run by little hitlers who have all the knowledge? but none of the common sense needed in dealing with people.
The system needs to separate the Cant pays from the Wont pays

[outlawlgo]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Technically summonses are issued by the Magistrates' court (according to the authorities).

What issuing means is that after the local authority has paid HMCTS (by credit card) £3 for each summons on the complaint list, the court sanctions the bulk application and gives the authority permission to send out summonses to everyone who appears on the complaint list.

The council (or the council's contractor) then produces the summonses on paper having pre-printed signatures of the Clerk to the Justices (or whatever their title is now). This process is automated with data relevant to each defendant held on the council's computer system. No doubt most councils have outsourced this to contractors who they can screw on price (postage enveloping) so the cost is likely to be less than £5 for each summons which the worst authorities can charge over £100 for Council Tax and £200 in the case of Business rates.

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

How many hours do you work? as you may be entitled to some tax credit if you work 16 hours or over even if self employed, your income is below JSA imho, the issue is that Council Tax is iniquitous in that it does not take any consideration of ability to pay

My hours are highly varied and sporadic, and the claims system for tax credit and JSA only works for regular payments. So I would have to do a change of circumstances weekly. The JSA people take the hightest sample and wrongly extrapolate that to every week. Still, isn't it great to be part of the Osborne recovery miracle !

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

As far as I am aware,,there is no 'get out' clause on Ctax...unless someone would be so kind as to enlighten me

I thought it went,,,Bill..no payments....reminders...no payment...Magistrates=Liability Order=no payment=bailiff

Unfortunately, Inca, there have been cases where people who are up to date with their CT installments or owe no CT have been made the subject of Liability Orders and harassed by bailiffs. The whole issue of Council Tax is riddled with corruption and fraud and I have a sneaking suspicion that the genie will be let out of the bottle sooner rather than later. Certainly, the lawfulness of CT Liability Order hearings is in question. The manner in which they are conducted breaches Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights which, in turn, places those involved, on the court and council sides, in breach of Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998 and at very real risk of being hauled before a judge and being held to account. Bizzybob recently summed it up very succinctly when he pointed out out that human rights legislation penetrates and impacts on other legislation far more deeply than many believe.

[bizzybob]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

The linked website is a FOTL website for determined "Won't Pays". Whether or not the charging of Council Tax is lawful is a completely different matter. Until someone is able to show the charging of CT is unlawful, we continue to pay it until Parliament comes up with a more workable alternative, such as local Income Tax, which has been mooted a number of times and is easier to administer and collect, but has been ignored for purely political reasons.

Council tax is wholly iniquitous as there is no consideration of the families financial circumstances, and therefore ability to pay. Council tax can be more than the rent in some council houses.