14 year old CCJ

[Guest]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Reading things again about this ridgeway, it looks like they could petition for bankruptcy whenever they want in the future!!!! As it is not classed as action under s.24

1. A footnote on p 167 cites Berkeley v Elderlem (1 El & Bl 805):
   "But where a specific remedy is provided for the recovery of such damages or sums of money, this mode of proceeding cannot be resorted to, as in the case of the new County courts, on the judgments of which an action will not lie

[Guest]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

so they would have had to get it within 6 months of the judgement?

If they did, proof was not sent in the sar and the dca havent provided proof of their attempt either.

im still confused over the ridgeway case though

No they cannot charge inters until the first notice is issued and then they must renew the notice every six months. The Ridgway case had no order for the way the judgment debt was to be repaid the business was in the process of liquidation, in a county court case the judgment debt is a liquidated sum.

[Crazy council]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

ok i will respond

ODC

I think it is, like i say, i dont know how the case law has changed since 2009, but any responce from the debitor in the 6 years, resets it

Am i wrong, has it changed since.

Then why are you advising???

Because i have personal recent experience in court with this matter. do you have any case law to refiar to.

Please follow the advice of Celestine who is a solicitor and Flaming Parrot

am so sorry if i have offended you 2 or have come across as trying to suggest am in any way more experenced than these.

I thought this line clear that up

Hi Celestine flaming parrot and CYNthesys

POSTER. TAKE THERE ADVISE NOT MINE, THEY HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE AND AM NOT CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO ADVISE ANY DIFFERENT.

but if i was not clear enough, i hope i ahve been now.

I will bug out of this conversation now as i feel that the poster needs some proper advise,

[Guest]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Buggalugs - Please follow the advice of Celestine who is a solicitor and Flaming Parrot. Im sure Crazy Council means well but they are offering information based on what happened to a friend of a friend. Theres is a serious amount of money involved here so you need decent advice such as that offered by Celestine and Flaming Parrot

Sorry but this is incorrect on almost every point, with all due respect to all concerned.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

I would not do this formaly at the moment, they may use it as you formaly acsepting that payment is due from you, and i presume your defence might be, if required to defend it

1. You was second on the agreement
2. You left the property with your ex still in it.
3. You had no indication that it was not being paid as per he had agreed with you when you left.
4. That it was a surprise to you upon recipt of the claim in 2009.

Untill you understand your legal position, i would not discuss anything with the creditor.

I was not trying to spin you into a panic by what i said but do not just dismiss it. It probebly is sortable, but it is probebly time to deal with it now

There's a CCJ already in place, so it's not a question of 'defending' it. That boat left 14 years ago!

For a number of reasons, get full details on that, make sure somebody did make a payment and that £ 15 is not being used as a bridge to step over the 6 year rule.

I think it is, like i say, i dont know how the case law has changed since 2009, but any responce from the debitor in the 6 years, resets it

We are getting two entirely different things mixed up here, the above only applies where no judgment has been obtained. Judgments do not go statute barred, therefore there's no issue of resetting the clock by making a payment as would be if this was a debt not subject to a judgment.

The issue here is that it would appear that the creditor who obtained judgment did not attempt to enforce the judgment within the first 6 years. Enforcement is action taken by the CREDITOR not payments made by the debtor.

I dont think that is classed as enforcement in the 6 years and payments to reset a clock dont count in judgement debts apparently.

Indeed they don't, since there's no clock to reset after judgment has been obtained.

It should be noted I have not provided any ADVICE whatsoever, just made comments on the facts presented, without even suggesting to the OP any course of action. I'm not legally qualified to provide advice. :nono:

[Crazy council]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Flaming parrot, Make sure your not getting mixed up between what actions they can take ither side of getting the LO.

There's a CCJ already in place, so it's not a question of 'defending' it. That boat left 14 years ago!

.

I was not referring to defending the LO, i was referring to defending against them pursuing her for the LO, as its a joint debt. You will struggle to appeal a LO after 14 days, never mind 14 Years.

i seem to be getting mixed up about what points are being argued about. and i can not understand some of the point put back

[Guest]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

The original question was in regard to a consumer credit debt I believe. Fp is right in that once a judgment is made there is no limitaion on enforcement of that judgment, there is a limitation on proceeding "an action" bought on that judgment, this would be a bankruptcy or other court action, the confusion with the case mentioned is because in that judgment the sum is not defined in that case , in a county court case the judgment sum has to be a liquefied(set) amount of money, so the distinction does not arise.

This is requirement of the county court act. the position regarding post judgment interest is also set out in the county court act(1991) section 2a i think where it states that no judgment interest can be awarded on a consumer crdit debt.

Then for some reason we starte dto talk about liability orders. LO are issued by the Magistrates court, although the SOL does apply before the order is issued in that it has to be applied for at least 6 years after the debt accrued, there is likewise no SOL for these judgment debts either, as far as enforcement for old Magistrates court judgment debts, i would think that they were enforceable whenever, because they are not issued by the civil court(cpr would not apply), although technically they are a civil debt.

The issue of post judgment interst has been addressed.

Cheers

[buggaluggs]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Sorry but this is incorrect on almost every point, with all due respect to all concerned.

so I shouldn't follow the 'advice' from Celestine and flaming parrot?

Flaming parrot, Make sure your not getting mixed up between what actions they can take ither side of getting the LO.

.

I was not referring to defending the LO, i was referring to defending against them pursuing her for the LO, as its a joint debt. You will struggle to appeal a LO after 14 days, never mind 14 Years.

i seem to be getting mixed up about what points are being argued about. and i can not understand some of the point put back

So I can't appeal an LO after 14 years? is an LO the same as a CCJ, I'm a bit confused about this point.

The original question was in regard to a consumer credit debt I believe. Fp is right in that once a judgment is made there is no limitaion on enforcement of that judgment, there is a limitation on proceeding "an action" bought on that judgment, this would be a bankruptcy or other court action, the confusion with the case mentioned is because in that judgment the sum is not defined in that case , in a county court case the judgment sum has to be a liquefied(set) amount of money, so the distinction does not arise.

This is requirement of the county court act. the position regarding post judgment interest is also set out in the county court act section 24 i think where it states that no judgment interest can be awarded on a consumer crdit debt.

Then for some reason we starte dto talk about liability orders. LO are issued by the Magistrates court, although the SOL does apply before the order is issued in that it has to be applied for at least 6 years after the debt accrued, there is likewise no SOL for these judgment debts either, as far as enforcement for old Magistrates court judgment debts, i would think that they were enforceable whenever, because they are not issued by the civil court(cpr would not apply), although technically they are a civil debt.

The issue of post judgment interst has been addressed.

Cheers

Post interest, I get now thankyou.

LO in a magistrates court are different to CCJS?

So, to sum up. s.24 only refers to new actions (they cannot start bankruptcy proceedings one me now for example) NOT enforcement and to enforce after 14 years they would need to go to court and prove they have tried to enforce within the original 6 years?

Is that right?

Maybe not everything was sent in the SAR in 2009, the transcripts/notes make reference to 'wx' which seems to be a warrant of execution at the local county court on my ex in 2002/2003 but was returned by the local court as he had 'gone away'.

So maybe they could enforce?

I'm hoping they will accept the full and final I have offered (half original judgment) but I suspect they will want more as they have added interest on, albeit possibly not legally, so not sure where I would go from there.

[Amethyst]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Ignore the stuff about the Liability Order (LO) - it is an entirely different animal to a County Court Judgment (CCJ) off a Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA).

To be able to enforce the CCJ they hold the claimants will need to apply to the court for permission to enforce, it is a possibility they will get permission, but unlikely as it has been so long since the judgment before attempting any form of enforcement.

[Crazy council]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Ignore the stuff about the Liability Order (LO) - it is an entirely different animal to a County Court Judgment (CCJ) off a Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA).

My Bad, sorry, got my wires a bit crossed on LOs and CCJs from the CCA. Bugalugs, listen to the others, not me, i have tryed saying that a few times.

Amethyst... can i ask you a question on this

but unlikely as it has been so long since the judgment before attempting any form of enforcement.

.

I though, ( probably wrongly ) that as long as the creditor or agent had made reasonable efforts to contact/collect for a sustained period, that generally they get granted, i thought ( wrongly ) it was only if the debtor could show the creditor had not made reasonable efforts to collect/service it.

[Guest]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

so I shouldn't follow the 'advice' from Celestine and flaming parrot?



So I can't appeal an LO after 14 years? is an LO the same as a CCJ, I'm a bit confused about this point.



Post interest, I get now thankyou.

LO in a magistrates court are different to CCJS?

So, to sum up. s.24 only refers to new actions (they cannot start bankruptcy proceedings one me now for example) NOT enforcement and to enforce after 14 years they would need to go to court and prove they have tried to enforce within the original 6 years?

Is that right?

Maybe not everything was sent in the SAR in 2009, the transcripts/notes make reference to 'wx' which seems to be a warrant of execution at the local county court on my ex in 2002/2003 but was returned by the local court as he had 'gone away'.

So maybe they could enforce?

I'm hoping they will accept the full and final I have offered (half original judgment) but I suspect they will want more as they have added interest on, albeit possibly not legally, so not sure where I would go from there.

Yes all you owe under a county court judgment for a consumer credit agreement is the judgment amount, this will not contain interst(they cannot include interest on a CCA agreement(county court act).

If they try an charge any post judgment interest you will need to see, the term in the agreement which entitles them to it, the part of the default notice which warns you that you would be liable for it if they achieved a judgment, and they would have had to send a section 130a notice after the judgment before the interest period commenced and there after every six months.

The interest is not added to the judgment debt it is a separate thing, and if they want to chase you for it they would have to start another action, this may prove problematic for them, for several reasons. Which not wishing to complicate natters further I will not go into(unless asked)

[Guest]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

information
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...article/2/made

The general rule

2. (1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, every judgmentdebt under a relevant judgment shall, to the extent that it remainsunsatisfied, carry interest under this Order from the date on which therelevant judgment was given.(2) In the case of a judgment or order for the payment of a judgmentdebt, other than costs, the amount of which has to be determined at alater date, the judgment debt shall carry interest from that later date.
(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevantjudgment—

(a)is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreementregulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974(1);

(b)

grants—

[buggaluggs]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Would the transcripts i described count as enforcement within the 6 years?

Does anyone know how a court may view this after all this time?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

In 2009, I began receiving letters addressed to me at my current address but saying Dear Mr xxxx. Stating that they would apply to the court for a CCJ etc so I sent a letter stating the debt was statute barred as it was over 6 years old and I did a SAR.

This showed that actually a judgment was obtained in our absence in June 2000 for £4300, the only payment made after that was for £15 in 2005, I presume by my ex.

All I have received since 2009 is a yearly 'statement of account' in 2013 and 2014 that just shows the balance which is now £9300 (Amount of judgment plus the interest that would have been charged over the length of the agreement from 1999)

Going back to the beginning, are they actually threatening to enforce the CCJ in any way? From what you describe above, in the past five years, you've just received annual statements.

Just after advice really as what to do as I have been told that a judge is unlikely to grant a re-enforcement after all this time as they have had years and I have also been told that in recent years judges are granting them, no questions asked!

WHO has been telling you all that? :noidea:

I don't want my husband and children to suffer in this if they decide to make me bankrupt or do an order of sale from a charging order! my anxiety levels are rising.

Have they got a charge on your property to start with? You said above something about 'gone away', presumably you didn't own your current property back in 2000.

Is there a reason for the sudden anxiety after 14 years that we should be aware of? :confused2:

[buggaluggs]

Re: 14 year old CCJ

Going back to the beginning, are they actually threatening to enforce the CCJ in any way? From what you describe above, in the past five years, you've just received annual statements.

WHO has been telling you all that? :noidea:

Have they got a charge on your property to start with? You said above something about 'gone away', presumably you didn't own your current property back in 2000.

Is there a reason for the sudden anxiety after 14 years that we should be aware of? :confused2:

They haven't threatened to enforce the CCJ at all, the initial letters I received in 2009 all threatened court action (CCJ) if I didn't pay so I sent a stature barred letter and a SAR, they then came back with a copy of the original judgement obtained, so they obviously hadn't realised there was a judgement in place when they began sending letters.

Various forums I have frequented before finding this one and other peoples threads I have read. Some state nothing can/will be enforced after so long, some state in recent years, judges just grant them and people get screwed over. Think there is a thread on here about a 16 year old ccj being enforced.

No charge on my property, I didn't become a home owner until 2004 (interestingly, I never saw this CCJ on my credit file and it didn't affect us getting a mortgage!)
It was in the transcript I received in my SAR, they mentioned that my ex partner had 'gone away' from his last known address (his parents address)

I received the latest statement 2 weeks ago, already suffering with anxiety and depressions for unrelated matters and I decided to look into this as I was concerned as to them sending me statements but not actually asking for money, which I found odd!