Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

[samsmoot]

As the Council haven't said anything about the actual procedure involved in the Summons to a hearing for non-payment of Council Tax which I have in front of me, I am clueless.

As it is in the Magistrates Court, it must be a criminal matter, yes? So which rules would apply? Can witnesess be called? Can it be asked that the claim to be dismissed? What about evidence? Etc.

There actually is no liability for the CT, and the day after that hearing there is a hearing in the County Court with the Council as Defendants to decide liability.

[PlanB]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

As the Council haven't said anything about the actual procedure involved in the Summons to a hearing for non-payment of Council Tax which I have in front of me, I am clueless.

As it is in the Magistrates Court, it must be a criminal matter, yes? So which rules would apply? Can witnesess be called? Can it be asked that the claim to be dismissed? What about evidence? Etc.

There actually is no liability for the CT, and the day after that hearing there is a hearing in the County Court with the Council as Defendants to decide liability.

Why does the council think you have liability for this council tax and why do you think you don't?

If there is a dispute over liability then the Council would normally serve you with a Summons for a Magistrates Court to decide the issue.

I'm at a loss to understand why there would be proceedings in the County Court running in parallel. You say that the Council is the defendant in those proceedings which implies that you have taken out proceedings against them. Why did you do this and what is your claim against them?

More info needed on this unusual situation

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Is this a straightforward LO for your non-payment? If so, it is pretty much a rubber stamping exercise to enable the council to enforce the debt. If this is the case, try to come to a repayment arrangement with your council before this hearing.

I too am at a loss about the CC Hearing following. As Plan B rightly says, more information is needed. I recommend strongly you try to resolve the LO though, otherwise you will end up being asked to pay the full amount or have bailiffs instructed.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

The question is about what rules apply in a court room for a Liability Hearing. As the CPR applies in a County Court, what about in a Magistrates Court for a hearing of this type? It's a general question applicable to all such cases, is it not? Therefore specifics don't matter, do they?

But I do appreciate the input, so for clarity I can tell you that the Counci refused to make a decision (over suspension of HB/CTB following a failure to satisfy information requirements) in accordance with Section III of the Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit regulations 2001. A Part 8 Claim was made seeking an order that a decision be taken: either restoration or termination of HB/CTB or whatever the court thinks appropriate is the ask. This hearing is on June 6th - the Council jumped in and got a hearing in the MC for the 5th.

Housing and Council Tax benefit is therefore still the responsibility of the Council, so they are the ones who are liable.

The Council do not think I have liability, PlanB - they served the Summons because they are being spiteful to the person who they say does owe it.

Go on, ask me why...

But first - some rules regarding procedure perhaps?

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

The question is about what rules apply in a court room for a Liability Hearing. As the CPR applies in a County Court, what about in a Magistrates Court for a hearing of this type? It's a general question applicable to all such cases, is it not? Therefore specifics don't matter, do they? Technically the Magistrates' Court should follow correct procedure, but in reality they don't. There are threads many pages long on here where people have fought this, but unspurisingly they do not get far despite excellent work and arguments.

But I do appreciate the input, so for clarity I can tell you that the Counci refused to make a decision (over suspension of HB/CTB following a failure to satisfy information requirements) in accordance with Section III of the Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit regulations 2001. A Part 8 Claim was made seeking an order that a decision be taken: either restoration or termination of HB/CTB or whatever the court thinks appropriate is the ask. This hearing is on June 6th - the Council jumped in and got a hearing in the MC for the 5th.

Housing and Council Tax benefit is therefore still the resposibility of the Council, so they are the ones who are liable. If HB/CTB have been suspended, and you have failed to satisfy the council's information requirements, I would have thought liability remains with you until you satisfy their requirements. Once the entitlement to HB/CTB has been proven, then the council will amend the CT bill accordingly.

The specifics are irrelevant, as you say. The MCt hearing takes place first and the LO will be processed - I assume this is part of the normal bulk processing of CT LO's?

The County Court deals with the liability issue - are the DWP not involved?

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Technically the Magistrates' Court should follow correct procedure

Which is?

If HB/CTB have been suspended, and you have failed to satisfy the council's information requirements, I would have thought liability remains with you until you satisfy their requirements. Once the entitlement to HB/CTB has been proven, then the council will amend the CT bill accordingly.

Not at all, they must Restore or Terminate the Benefit in line with Part III, Sections 13 and 14.

DWP - no involvement.

Bulk issue? Probably.

[ploddertom]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

All the Magistrates are allowed to consider is whether the person(s) summonsed owe the Council Tax - yes or no - there is no middle ground. The grounds for contesting this are very narrow and even awaiting the outcome of a Benefit claim has no bearing on it. You are supposed to pay first and if Benefits are then agreed any overpayment is carried over to the next CT bill unless a request is made for reimbursement.

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Samsmoot, you seem very confrontational about this which concerns me a little. Post 1 suggests you know the rules pretty well for a Magistrates' Court, so there's little point in my explaining things again. In any case bulk hearings are a rule to themselves, so what might be normal for a MC may well not apply in one of these hearings. You can have just as lengthy an argument over fees for the LO, but you seem happy with those.

PT has stated the position clearly. I'd said much the same in my final comment of post 5. What more do you want?

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

All the Magistrates are allowed to consider is whether the person(s) summonsed owe the Council Tax - yes or no - there is no middle ground. The grounds for contesting this are very narrow

Yes, that's agreed.

For the sake of even more clairity, let me phrase the question in a different way:

'As the Civil Procedure Rules apply in County Court proceedings, _______ apply in a Liability Hearing in the Magistrates' Court'.

Can anyone please fill in the missing word(s)?

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Samsmoot, you seem very confrontational about this which concerns me a little

Confrontational? This is a very serious matter with possibly dire consequences and someone is going to get it if they don't watch it - that is my attitude so if that comes out then that's the truth. They started it, we will finish it.

Post 1 suggests you know the rules pretty well for a Magistrates' Court, so there's little point in my explaining things again.

I think you need to have another look at the post - it's County Court procedure I am confident about, but I am clueless about the Magistrates' Court procedure.

In any case bulk hearings are a rule to themselves, so what might be normal for a MC may well not apply in one of these hearings. You can have just as lengthy an argument over fees for the LO, but you seem happy with those.

PT has stated the position clearly. I'd said much the same in my final comment of post 5. What more do you want?

What I would like, please, are the answers to this:

'As it is in the Magistrates Court, it must be a criminal matter, yes? So which rules would apply? Can witnesess be called? Can it be asked that the claim be dismissed? What about evidence? Etc.'

It's becoming quite apparent that this is either a well kept secret or beyond the scope of this forum.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules

Brilliant - thanks a lot labman, just what I wanted. Not that I could not have googled it, but you never know with the law - after all, a hearing to decide whether someone is liable to pay CT doesn't really seem like a criminal matter - perhaps different rules would apply was my thought.

But if it is that black and white, which was my suspicion, then let us use the rules to our advantage. Not that a not guilty verdict still won't be expected, but all will be done with an appeal in mind, as we realise it may be a foregone conclusion.

The Council, BTW, are in the wrong as far as the CC claim is concerned - the legislation is pretty straightforward.

[wales01man]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

from reading several council websites re council tax magistrates court cases the process seems to be more rubber stamping than a case with evidence and defence there must be some appeal to a higher court but where is it?

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

from reading several council websites re council tax magistrates court cases the process seems to be more rubber stamping than a case with evidence and defence there must be some appeal to a higher court but where is it?

Pertinent point, very good question.

[ploddertom]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Liability Orders in the Magistrates Court are unusual in the fact they are Civil and not Criminal. To progress further after the Magistrates involves going to the High Court. Before attending the lower Court do you have a valid excuse/defence against the Order the Council are seeking?