have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

[FlamingParrot]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

TB2
In my experience yet again you are wrong

Suspension with pay has always been stated as not a disciplinary action. It is part of due diligence. Maybe , because I have worked for two market leading multinational companies with big H.R. departments they are able to get it right.

If you tried to go to ET and based your claim on non allowance of a witness/representative an an investigatory meeting, pre or post suspension you would have a very hard task to prove that the employer had failed in their duty.

Personally I think it is a situation to aspire to, any meeting with your employer should allow a witness to be present but I cant see that happening

I have to agree with the above, basing a claim purely on technical procedural issues does not guarantee success and can be risky.

Once upon a time I had a case prepped by an eminent professor with a PhD who was a bit of a figure in employment case law (google Hinton Compromise Agreement :nerd who wrote all my letters during the suspension/disciplinary period and picked on all the finer points. I was then represented by an employment solicitor from a well known law centre who drafted and submitted my claim. The alleged gross misconduct 'offences' were ridiculous beyond belief, basically having an online portfolio and a one liner buried somewhere on the site that mentioned my employers as 'clients'.

The letter inviting me to a disciplinary had been typed before they questioned me and was handed to me along with the letter saying I was suspended pending an investigation, the disciplinary was scheduled for 1pm the day after and I got the letters at 5pm. I spotted that the disciplinary letter said I was entitled to at least 24hrs notice so they went and printed a new one off. As it stood at the time, there would hardly have been time for an investigation, let alone a meeting, before the disciplinary. I managed to get the disciplinary postponed thanks to the letters drafted by the person I mentioned above. :typing: I was told in writing I had to be available to attend a meeting at any time during my normal working hours because I was suspended with full pay and I had to have my phone switched on and ready to take a call. :cell: I received such a call to go to the investigation meeting and was only given a few hours notice over the phone. hone: The day after I got a call saying a cab was on its way to pick me up along with my home computer and laptop for inspection by the company's IT department.

There was no question of being accompanied at any of those two meetings. My claim was backed up by a pile of evidence showing they'd plotted the dismissal well in advance, probably as far back as one year, yet in the end I was given only a 20% chance of winning and was warned about the possibility of a costs order against me (Baker & McKenzie being their legal representative :scared, all this by my own legal representative.

IMHO procedural issues are most useful for getting them to consider a 'commercial settlement' rather than as a true winning argument.

[Berniethebolt]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

TB2
In my experience yet again you are wrong

Suspension with pay has always been stated as not a disciplinary action. It is part of due diligence. Maybe , because I have worked for two market leading multinational companies with big H.R. departments they are able to get it right.


If you tried to go to ET and based your claim on non allowance of a witness/representative an an investigatory meeting, pre or post suspension you would have a very hard task to prove that the employer had failed in their duty.

Personally I think it is a situation to aspire to, any meeting with your employer should allow a witness to be present but I cant see that happening

[teaboy2]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

Based on personal experience, unless things have changed in the past few years, I'll be inclined to agree, an investigation meeting is just to find out more details from yourself and you didn't have the right to be accompanied or even to 24 hours notice.

With regards to disciplinaries when you have the right to be accompanied, some companies will allow someone who is neither a colleague nor a union rep, to accompany you, in particular when there is no union involved, so it's always worth asking. :thumb:

Actually since nearly all companies include the investigatory meeting as part of their disciplinary procedure policy or contract terms, then suspension alone triggers the disciplinary procedure. As such, whilst the investigatory meeting is largely fact finding, the fact it is part of a disciplinary process in the disciplinary procedure policy/terms, then it forms part of a formal disciplinary process and the employee therefore does have the right to be accompanied.

Basically the onus is on the employer to make it clear that the employee is not yet facing disciplinary action or that the investigatory meeting is not part of the employers disciplinary procedure! Otherwise the employee could bring a claim for denial of statutory right to be accompanied!

So basically if the investigatory meeting is part of the employers disciplinary policy and its not made clear to whether the employee has the right to be accompanied (or that the meeting is informal) to said meeting, then the statutory right does apply, purely because said meeting forms part of the employers own disciplinary policy!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

Something I rarely do on employment issues but I am going to stick my neck out and say you are wrong T2 when you state that you have a right to be accompanied at an investigation meeting.
Unless otherwise allowed for in a contract of employment and investigation meeting is just that and is not a formal part of the disciplinary process . As such you have no right to be accompanied although some employers will allow it.
Of course as always , if you can provide evidence to the contrary then I will admit I was wrong.

Based on personal experience, unless things have changed in the past few years, I'll be inclined to agree, an investigation meeting is just to find out more details from yourself and you didn't have the right to be accompanied or even to 24 hours notice.

With regards to disciplinaries when you have the right to be accompanied, some companies will allow someone who is neither a colleague nor a union rep, to accompany you, in particular when there is no union involved, so it's always worth asking. :thumb:

[Berniethebolt]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

Something I rarely do on employment issues but I am going to stick my neck out and say you are wrong T2 when you state that you have a right to be accompanied at an investigation meeting.
Unless otherwise allowed for in a contract of employment and investigation meeting is just that and is not a formal part of the disciplinary process . As such you have no right to be accompanied although some employers will allow it.
Of course as always , if you can provide evidence to the contrary then I will admit I was wrong.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wo...inary-meeting/

https://www.tuc.org.uk/workplace-iss...be-accompanied

[teaboy2]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

yes i am thanks for replying do i have any legal rights against what he said given he had proof against what he said he didnt back any of it up when i worked i just used to forget about him he seemed to be after all of the workers under him trying to catch every one out a number of the fellow workers said they would speak up for me i cant believe they think they can act like that. is it slanderous what he did to get me out.

YOu can certainly ask to see any evidence and especially as hes made the accusation to your employer (3rd party), meaning if the accusation is false you could sue for slander against the managers employers - But question is what did he accuse you off? Having others speak up for you would help in any legal proceedings too. But then even if you went down that route, whilst it would clear your name, it wouldn't change the fact you can no longer work at that site.

Was this meeting a disciplinary or an investigation, maybe you have mentioned it but I can't see. You have no right to be accompanied to investigation meetings but you do to discplinary

An investigatory meeting forms part of the formal disciplinary process, therefore, yes your entitled to be accompanied. But meeting in question wasn't disciplinary, though you can still be accompanied by a colleague or union rep.

hi thanks for replying it was called removal from site meeting. disgusting i haven't done anyfthing wrong the managers there arehorrible to there staff there completely over step what they can do he has got rid of at least 12 staff since august last year when he came..

If hes that bad then your best of out of there anyway, especially since hes tried causing you problems before, and would likely try and find another way to have got rid of you if he'd failed this time round!

If I am correct then , you do not actually work for the company who own the site, you work for a contractor is that correct?

If your employer says they will pay you until a new site is found from what I can see you have neither been disciplined or even investigated over anything you have just fallen foul of a personality clash.

If the assumptions I have made above are correct and they do keep paying you I do not think you have much you can legally complain about although I can understand your hurt feelings

You are correct, but then a lot depends on contract of employment, i.e if the site was named as place of work, they would need to change said term, which can only be done via notice of variation of terms, which most be agreed to by the OP. But it think in this case, the OP is best off agreeing to such and not working on that site with the manager in question given current and previous issues with said manager.

[halsaps]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

yes you are right i cant believe people would do this to get somewhere higher up in life

[Berniethebolt]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

If I am correct then , you do not actually work for the company who own the site, you work for a contractor is that correct?

If your employer says they will pay you until a new site is found from what I can see you have neither been disciplined or even investigated over anything you have just fallen foul of a personality clash.

If the assumptions I have made above are correct and they do keep paying you I do not think you have much you can legally complain about although I can understand your hurt feelings

[halsaps]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

hi thanks for replying it was called removal from site meeting. disgusting i haven't done anyfthing wrong the managers there arehorrible to there staff there completely over step what they can do he has got rid of at least 12 staff since august last year when he came..

[Berniethebolt]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

Was this meeting a disciplinary or an investigation, maybe you have mentioned it but I can't see. You have no right to be accompanied to investigation meetings but you do to discplinary

[halsaps]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

yes i am thanks for replying do i have any legal rights against what he said given he had proof against what he said he didnt back any of it up when i worked i just used to forget about him he seemed to be after all of the workers under him trying to catch every one out a number of the fellow workers said they would speak up for me i cant believe they think they can act like that. is it slanderous what he did to get me out.

[teaboy2]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

To be honest i think you would be better off out of their given the issues you have had with the store manager in other threads. Though if they expect you to travel sixty miles i would be asking them to pay towards your travel expenses, until they can find you a more suitable location closer to where you live!

[halsaps]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

my company are moving me next week to place don't really want to work i might have to do some nights.
I was going to have to travel to Clacton 60 miles a day i am not doing it. Ihave emailed him to tell him this evening.

[halsaps]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

hi got the reason for it all completely false say misconduct and mistrustfull actions completely unsubstantiated no eveidence given it made me go cold i felt sick when my area manager said it. All the staff are shocked and can' belive i am going the deputy manager has said anything tome since the meeting but what rights di have as i am a contractor i don't work for the chain i work for vsg

[halsaps]

Re: have been given 5 days then i have been given 5 days then i have to

yes that is what ithought i may ask one of lads from the diy chain where i am there security guard as he is clued up and has a cousin who is a barrister but i am the only one from my company as i am there only guard and my area manager will be there. i hope that is ok. thanks for replying