Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

[Acjb007]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

I don't want my job back but if I can on some level say it was an unfair hearing and that I would like a neutral reference from then in order to get future employment. Just a ref stating when I started and finished and all the roles I did and I was promoted and left due to a disagreement. Is that fair?

[MIKE770]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

been there and won in tribunal BUT worse off because of employment record as recorded yet I won

[Mr $quanda£ot]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

I don't want my job back but if I can on some level say it was an unfair hearing and that I would like a neutral reference from then in order to get future employment. Just a ref stating when I started and finished and all the roles I did and I was promoted and left due to a disagreement. Is that fair?

You can try to negotiate.

Unfortunately, you only got yourself to blame and they have no obligation whatsoever to provide a neutral reference.

If they do, then please learn from your mistake and never steal again.

We do have people from all walks of life here on LB, including convicted fraudsters who have managed to learn from their mistakes.

[Acjb007]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

I've just spoken with acas and they pretty much confirmed that process wasn't followed correctly but I don't have a leg to stand on as it's not the law and every part of the disciplinary was fine. Apart from one thing. They chose to ignore my medical history and failed to even look at the file of evidence I had to back up my behaviour. They think this could give me strong grounds for an appeal and I should get to my GP asap for more advice. I couldn't understand if my medical history was irrelevant why after I was dismissed they then asked to view the letter and took a copy of it.

[Acjb007]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

My employer owes me £120 in unpaid expenses. I'm not going through the shame or arrogance of asking for it but does it give me any grounds for theft due to them not paying out as soon as the expenses occurred? Some go back nearly 9 months. I was told I must claim them but then given so many tasks by my manager it was impossible. My manager was always harder on me than any other colleagues. On my birthday nothing was said. When another guy had his birthday she got him a card and said he could go home early by 4 hours. This was the day I got caught. Ironically he is always in trouble and upsetting colleagues and customers yet I had an un blemished record.

[Amethyst]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

Personally I would just try and put it behind you and move on. Try and negotiate with your employer about a neutral reference, using what ACAS have told you about your medical history being ignored to hint at a possible unfair dismissal claim - point out your previously unblemished record and how you understand what you did was wrong and you are seeking help but fear a negative reference would potentially stop your recovery and prevent you finding alternative employment. Basically try the 'give me an ok reference and I'll go quietly' .... worth a shot.

[MIKE770]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

move on put down as a bad experience like we all do!

[teaboy2]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

Thank you! So as I wasn't given a letter stating I was suspended and the reason why and also not given 48hrs to prepare for the initial meeting does this mean they have broken the disciplinary process making the whole thing void? When I left work after being verbally suspended I was very confused as to what the allegations could be. Theft is unclear as for all I knew the claim could have been wrong. For instance a colleague used my log in details and committed theft. Is 20 hours verbal notice enough? I have searched and searched online for the disciplinary action the supermarket follow with no luck. Basically I entered the meeting unaware of the rules, how the meeting would go. I was NOT given a specific room to meet in. Simply told to be at work at 1pm.

The cctv was clear and I can't deny I skipped scanned products. However you CANNOT see the items I took. The duty manager said it's clear you are bypassing scanning the product but what items are you taking. I replied honestly with 'I can't remember'.

There was a witness statement with the colleagues name on it. His address was crossed out. You'd think he'd want to remain anonymous due to him now being considered a grass. Colleagues really liked me and said he could have told me he saw what I was doing and warn me to stop and pay for my goods. That way I'd have chickened out and not committed the offence and of course kept my job. Shall I mention I know it was him and have no hard feelings to see if he acts surprised I know? If he wished to remain anonymous and hasn't been does that damage the case?

The first letter I was sent from ***** was given to me by hand at the disciplinary meeting. It contained info on the companies disciplinary process and a letter of suspension. I had no time to read it and in fact didn't open it until the end of the meeting.

Notes were taken and sent to me which arrived the following day.

The police would only be able to go on my admission and evidence but I could say I took cheap items of no value. From experience the police class shoplifting as a low priority often turning up 4 hours after they have been called. The shoplifter then normally pays for the goods and is banned. Not worth the paperwork I believe.

If all above is 100% accurate and clear I can prepare to appeal the disciplinary on the grounds.

1. No written warning was given regarding my suspension.
2. No written letter regarding the accusation in detail so I could prepare case.
3. No information given before the meeting to inform me of the companies disciplinary process and that I maybe dismissed.
4. Only 20 hours notice given verbally of the meeting which I felt was not enough time to prepare myself. Also back to point 1, 2 and 3 I did not know it could lead to dismissal. How the meeting would run. Fear my rep may not be able to attend at such short notice. And I cannot prepare a case when I have no knowledge of the full reason I was suspended apart from the term used as theft. When I asked for more information it was I was denied it point blankly.
5. The 3 interuptions to the meeting made me lose track of thought in an already very stressful situation.
6. My medical notes and mitigating circumstances were completely ignored.
7. I was accused of being aware of my actions due to me scanning normally when colleagues were near me. When I challenged this saying a colleague was near me in the original footage by my side talking to me and I still skipped scanning. The cctv was not viewed again and my comments were dismissed.
8. Not all the notes were taken when the HR manager interject as she was the note taker.
9. My line manager didn't remain impartial and involved herself as if she was in my position. I felt this unfair as clearly her circumstances are very different from mine.

3 years ago work did know I was depressed and I was told I'd be monitored daily to check on my health after hospital and wellbeing. Typically after that conversation I was never ever asked how I was or any follow up meeting was held. More recently I kept my depression a secret as I don't want it to define me as a person. Work could simply say they had no idea I was depressed and as I'd not had a day off sick in 3 yrs my health must be fine. They were aware of follow up hospital appointments as I had to book time off. At the end of the disciplinary the HR manager said I did know about your alcohol problem and health issues as she had been told ages ago and had forgotten about it. I asked if it was the HR manager before who told her and she replied no. My rep said there maybe a case for colleague confidentially being broken.

Over the past 3 years I my follow up hospital visits have included intrusive endoscopys, around 5 times I've had this procedure in those 3 years. Intense counselling where I've been an emotional wreck due to having to face my demons. Various blood tests and scans for tumors and cirrhosis monitoring. I found out a year ago after a scan my liver scan had topped her chart for damage hitting a score of 75kpa out of a depressing 75kpa. I was told within the next few years I will go downhill and should prepare myself to be put in the transplant list. This of course shook me to the core and with no family support or help from my councilor I had to deal with all this alone. I worried if I told work they would think I was weak and take away my promotion.

So there we go. I'm willing to go through a battle and have done so before with my complicated life. I'm hoping that the best I can get is work to admit they have not given me a fair disciplinary and will either pay me off or as a minimum supply me with a good reference leaving out any mentioned of why I left.

Is the note taker allowed to be the same person in both meetings? If I put up my works disciplinary actions then I will be naming the company. Is this allowed?

Thanks again!

You have already named them in your post above, though i would suggest you edit their name out like i have in my quote of your post. With regards to posting their disciplinary procedure you can simply cover the company name or edited it out using photo editor or if you don't know how too do that, email it to [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] (she will be along shortly with an email address for you) and Kati will post it up for you after shes edited out the company details for you.

[teaboy2]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

My employer owes me £120 in unpaid expenses. I'm not going through the shame or arrogance of asking for it but does it give me any grounds for theft due to them not paying out as soon as the expenses occurred? Some go back nearly 9 months. I was told I must claim them but then given so many tasks by my manager it was impossible. My manager was always harder on me than any other colleagues. On my birthday nothing was said. When another guy had his birthday she got him a card and said he could go home early by 4 hours. This was the day I got caught. Ironically he is always in trouble and upsetting colleagues and customers yet I had an un blemished record.

Ohh that does change things a bit, but it doesn't vindicate your actions though. Expenses are deemed as wages (section 27 subsection 2 (b) employment rights act 1996), and if they are not paid, then its deemed unlawful with-holding of wages under section 13 of the employment rights act 1996.

So you could bring a claim under section 13 of the employment rights act as well as for unfair dismissal - Or in this case, use it as a solid bargaining chip.

Can you give us more details as to what these expenses were?

[Acjb007]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

Amethyst. Thanks for the advice. I think maybe this is my best route to take.

[stevemLS]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

And please don't start trying to introduce issues such as non-payment of (unclaimed because I was too busy to claim) expenses - no it isn't theft, you haven't claimed them, or what was or was not said to you or anyone else on your birthday. They are irrelevant to your situation which I tried to summarise succicently in post #13.

Did you submit your medical evidence in advance, by the way? Just as the employer is expected to give in advance evidence upon which they intend to rely, so are you, as the ACAS Code makes clear.

We all wish you well and that you are able to put this behind you but it seems to me the consensus is that an appeal is not going anywhere? In your employers position, why I would even contemplate "paying off" an employee who had admitted stealing from me on multiple occasions I can't begin to think.

[Amethyst]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

I've taken out the name in the first post xx

( btw I agree with Steve )

[Kati]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

if you don't know how too do that, email it to @Kati (she will be along shortly with an email address for you) and Kati will post it up for you after shes edited out the company details for you.

of course you can email it to me [MENTION=70535]Acjb007[/MENTION] - kati@legalbeagles.info xx

[Acjb007]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

I'm in charge of posting customer complaint issues off. This is any product the store sells. One was a very heavy frying pan that cost about £20 to post. I haven't put in a claim for these for at least 9 months. I have all the receipts. I also drove to another branch to collect bags as we had run out. I didn't claim for these either. my manager did mention that I must claim them asap as she didn't want to see me out of pocket. It's a difficult one as there are so many to claim now I'd have to find half hour to put an expense claim form together. I was told I must do it that day but then given unachievable demands for the day. The store is so busy in a 9 hour shift I quite often don't sit down once and miss breaks due to meeting store targets. So they've done wrong not paying me? Could I use this as another reason I stole?

[judgemental24]

Re: Got dismissed today. Advice please. .

Before we go any further with this, Has it been established how long the employee has been employed for?? If it is less than 2 years wrongful dismissal is out the window.

Less than two years service the employer can do what ever they like (Probation Period) with no come back unless it is a breach of a statutory obligation