Invited to a disciplinary

[NoPaddle]

Fingers crossed your appeal is successful but if not the most serious failure in my opinion is 6 for the reason I said.

Point 6 is good as to why the appeal was not fair and i'll keep it in mind if it goes to tribunal. I'll put it with the breaches to employment law that made the dismissal unfair. Thanks

My rep said he would make a written statement regarding point 7 should it be required.

[NoPaddle]

Its been about a month since dismissal, and a week since the appeal. Ive heard nothing back from the appeal yet. At what point should I start early conciliation? I'm aware I have only 2 months left to put a tribunal claim in.

[PallasAthena]

What does college policy say about how long before you get the decision? If they have exceeded that complain to HR.

[ULA]

Responding specifically to how long before you start Early Conciliation - you must notify ACAS within 3 months minus 1 day from your dismissal. I would advise though that you do not leave it until the last minute.

[NoPaddle]

I lost my appeal.

The college claim that the breaches of employment law I cited were irrelevant because none of those cases were linked to schools!! That's the level I'm dealing with. I cited breaches to 'Burchell', but according to them, 'Burchell' is only relevant to cases that deal with the same type of business as the 'Burchell' case dealt with. They didn't bother commenting on the other employment laws they breached.

They claim my original suspension was not predetermined simply because when they suspended me they gave me a letter that stated suspension is not a predetermination of guilt.

They also rely on an undocumented phone call, which supposedly took place prior to my suspension, and which they never disclosed at any time until the appeal outcome letter, supposedly with the student I allegedly called a retard. They claim the student confirmed that I did. The strange thing is, at the appeal hearing, they claimed it was an email and never stated that the student confirmed any such thing.

There's loads more and it's all BS from them.

Gonna have a few days to gather my thoughts, then mon morning start early conciliation.

[Presonus]

Please keep positive and keep fighting this, it is so wrong on so many levels.

[NoPaddle]

I now have a copy of the email they claimed at appeal was from the student who i allegedly called a retard. It wasnt from the student at all, it was an email from the investigation officer who claims to have had a phone call with the student and claims the student said i did call them a retard. There are no witnesses to such a phone call and no confirmation from the student that a phone call took place. The investigator never mentioned having a phone call with the student at the time. The disciplinary never mentioned there was a phone call despite one of my points being that they had never contacted the student to ask them. It was only claimed at appeal hearing that they had an email from the student after i again mentioned they had never asked the student in question. Now it turns out the email was from the investigating officer, and the college relied on it to uphold the dismissal. And at appeal, when they claimed to have an email from the student, they never stated the email said i called the student a retard, they quoted something else which wasnt even in the email.

At least my union rep has confirmed he is writing a statement for me about the fact that during the appeal, he was informed by someone in that room that I was only dismissed because I didnt show enough remorse. The college will likely deny that at tribunal, so not sure if his statement will help.

[ULA]

If you do need support as you move on to Early Conciliation then just come back to this thread.

[NoPaddle]

Do ACAS and the courts shut for christmas; if they do, is extra time added to the time limits for early conciliation and making a claim due to them closing for christmas?

[ULA]

There is no extra time added to the time limits due to any Christmas closures by the Tribunal or ACAS.

[NoPaddle]

With just days to go before the deadline to apply for early conciliation, my union tells me that their solicitors said 'the case does not have reasonable prospects of success'. They will send me a full report but it wont arrive until after the deadline. So, I will apply for early conciliation regardless and see what happens. I have another job now so not too bothered if it doesnt go my way. Strange that the solicitor feels theres no prospect of success considering the college admitted in the dismissal letter that they had to look at the issue in the worst case scenario; which to me means they looked at it as if i was guilty, so they prejudged my guilt, not forgetting they also breached their own policies and employment law in suspending me and dismissing me..

[ULA]

As you say will be interesting to see their assessment of the case. However if you do at least for the meantime want to consider pursuing then make sure you submit the Early Conciliation in time. I am sure you aware but it is 3 months less a day from your date of termination.

[NoPaddle]

Still waiting for the ET3. The deadline for them to submit that is just over a week away. I have been given a date for a pre hearing in October this year. Is it normal to schedule a pre hearing before receiving the ET3?

My (now ex) union rep ignored all my requests for the statement he said he would write. So I now cant use what he told me at the tribunal.

[Benny8902]

Still waiting for the ET3. The deadline for them to submit that is just over a week away. I have been given a date for a pre hearing in October this year. Is it normal to schedule a pre hearing before receiving the ET3?

My (now ex) union rep ignored all my requests for the statement he said he would write. So I now cant use what he told me at the tribunal.

I'm not a solicitor or anything. Though;

Yes they will pre-schedule a PH sometimes before receiving the ET3. Respondents tend to file the day before the deadline most of the time.

Only thing you can do for the Union rep is chase him up.


I was reading further back and wanted to comment on what you said on page #2 below.

The college claim that the breaches of employment law I cited were irrelevant because none of those cases were linked to schools!! That's the level I'm dealing with. I cited breaches to 'Burchell', but according to them, 'Burchell' is only relevant to cases that deal with the same type of business as the 'Burchell' case dealt with. They didn't bother commenting on the other employment laws they breached.

They claim my original suspension was not predetermined simply because when they suspended me they gave me a letter that stated suspension is not a predetermination of guilt.

It seems that in matter of fact you where not dealing with their HR department it was their solicitor. Which tends to happen, it's good to know for you that they have a gross misunderstanding of 'Burchell,' shows the incompetence of those individuals.


Here is some helpful cases which I have found a long time ago which deal with suspension, they provide some support for certain positions. Have a read into them.

1. Kaur v Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust [2018] EWCA Civ 978.
2. Morrow v Safeway Stores [2002] IRLR 9
3. Woods v WM Car Services (Peterborough) Ltd [1981] ICR 666, 672A.
4. Harrison v Barking, Havering and Redbridge University Hospitals NHS Trust [2019] EWHC 3507 (QB).
5. Gogay v Hertfordshire County Council [2000] EWCA Civ 228 (26 July 2000).

Simone Agoreyo v London Borough of Lambeth [2017] EWHC 2019 (QB)

"Whilst views generally might reasonably differ as to whether suspension is a "neutral act", the view of the courts is that it is not. In Mezey v South West London and St George's Mental Health NHS Trust[2007] EWCA Civ 106, for example, Sedley LJ, with whom Dyson LJ and Sir Peter Gibson agreed, said this:"

Stay positive and fight them and show them their mistakes in full.

[NoPaddle]

As far as i'm aware I was just dealing with HR and the college principal. I highly doubt that they got any legal advice at all.

Thanks for the case references. The judgement of Simone Agoreyo v London Borough of Lambeth was overturned by the Court of Appeal: see link below.

I'll take a look at the others over the weekend.