**DISCONTINUED**County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Bit of Googling brought this address up courtesy of their own website.

Customer RelationsVodafone LtdShelton BoulevardStoke-on-TrentST1 5GP

I will send the SAR to them and the CCA to Lowell. I will attach the £ within using Postal orders too. Both going recorded.

If you think I need to send another document please let me know.

Thanks again

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Both caa and sar sent. One to Lowell and 1 to Vodafone. Both recorded and receipts kept.

Is that me done until I receive a response?

Thanks

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Hi, is anyone available to comment on this? I know I only sent the letters yesterday but extremely eager to know if I need to send any others or that will suffice?

Thanks

[R0b]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Hi, is anyone available to comment on this? I know I only sent the letters yesterday but extremely eager to know if I need to send any others or that will suffice?

Thanks

Hello, sorry i'm not always around on weekends, but I've noticed you intend to defend it. Just to clarify you have sent the following documents:

1. SAR to Vodafone
2. CCA to Lowell
3. CPR 31.14 to Lowell Solicitors?

Have you got proof of postage receipts in case they dispute it was sent?

If you have already acknowledged the claim you have 33 days from the date of issue to file and serve a defence. There's a few doubts you can raise within your defence in that you received no termination letter from Vodafone (the SAR should hopefully prove if this was done or not) but also that they have failed to sufficiently identify how the amount has been calculated. If you do recall having 3 lines under one account then it would also mean that they have different contractual dates and would technically require 3 termination letters unless Vodafone gave you notice to cancel all three within the same letter. You also say that the amount being claimed appears to be incorrect too, this is also something which could be raised as an issue.

There is an example draft defence here -> Click Here

You should start drafting one now and try and put in everything you think is disputed or requires further proof. Once you've done that if you post it up then we can take a look and comment on it. In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with trying to settle this matter out of court and potentially avoiding a CCJ against you, but it might be best to do this once you have put in your defence, if you do it too early Lowell might see that as an opportunity, so bear in mind that court is not always the only solution.

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Hello, sorry i'm not always around on weekends, but I've noticed you intend to defend it. Just to clarify you have sent the following documents:

1. SAR to Vodafone
2. CCA to Lowell
3. CPR 31.14 to Lowell Solicitors?

Have you got proof of postage receipts in case they dispute it was sent?

If you have already acknowledged the claim you have 33 days from the date of issue to file and serve a defence. There's a few doubts you can raise within your defence in that you received no termination letter from Vodafone (the SAR should hopefully prove if this was done or not) but also that they have failed to sufficiently identify how the amount has been calculated. If you do recall having 3 lines under one account then it would also mean that they have different contractual dates and would technically require 3 termination letters unless Vodafone gave you notice to cancel all three within the same letter. You also say that the amount being claimed appears to be incorrect too, this is also something which could be raised as an issue.

There is an example draft defence here -> Click Here

You should start drafting one now and try and put in everything you think is disputed or requires further proof. Once you've done that if you post it up then we can take a look and comment on it. In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with trying to settle this matter out of court and potentially avoiding a CCJ against you, but it might be best to do this once you have put in your defence, if you do it too early Lowell might see that as an opportunity, so bear in mind that court is not always the only solution.

Hi Rob, thanks for the response. I appreciate your time with this and apologise if I seemed pushy at the weekend. Sometimes during the weekend I get more time and was just eager to know I had done what I needed.

After reading your message I still need to do that CPR 31.14 to Lowell. I wasn't sure what the document was that I needed to send so didn't. When you say the Solicitors do you mean the PO BOX address on the claim form listed as Lowell Solicitors Limited, PO BOX 1419, Northampton, NN21BU. I sent my CCA to the claimant address listed as Lowell Portfolio I Ltd, Ellington House, 9 Savannah Way, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS10 1AB

My letters were recorded yes and I kept the receipts

Thanks

[R0b]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Yes, to the address as it is listed, you can't be blamed if they have not given the correct address for delivery or service of documents.

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Good Morning. I am just on doing my final letter from the 3 to send today.

After copying the CPR template over I am just wondering what date I have to put for this line

To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on XX XXXX 201X.

Not sure if I have to give a specific date....?

Rest is done just want to make sure I get this date right before sending...

Cheers

[R0b]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

it will be 33 days from the date of the claim being issued, and in your first post you say 24 August.

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Yes it is the 24th the issue date so 26th September would be 33 days. Do I just put the 25/09/2016 to be on the safe side?

Thanks

26th

[R0b]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

You can put 25 if you want, wouldn't expect them to get back to you in that time, which you will then need to make a decision in the meantime. You should start working on your defence whilst you are waiting so its not being done last minute and rushed.

You have a couple of options once your defence is filed: If Lowell don't have the docs the claim will be stayed after 28 days leaving you in limbo until they can find a time to get the documents which could me months later and then lift the stay and your buggered, otherwise you could play them at their own game and counterclaim for a small sum which will cost you £25 (for damages up to £300) and state that their claim should be dismissed for an abuse of process and malicious prosecution, in that they do not have the requisite facts and they are not in possession of the documents they rely on in their statement of case.

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

I have put the 25th and will get that posted off today.

If they don't have the docs within the time given does it not just get thrown out? What is the likelihood of them finding the documents, is it not a common result for them not to be able to find the documents or is it the other way around, they find them and you are buggered?

Is a counterclaim a viable option in your opinion and how successful are they, should they not be able to find the documents requested.

Thanks again

[R0b]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

They will need to respond whether they wish to proceed once you file a defence within 28 days. If they don't then the claim is stayed and costs £255 to lift the stay from either party, meaning your other option would to pay that amount and then request the claim to be struck out.

From what I've seen on here, it is common for regulated consumer credit agreements to not find documents which are old although you think this account is only five years old but they are lacking in information on the particulars of claim. You would need to highlight all of this as a reason why the particulars of claim should be struck out for lack of pleadings and not enabling you to properly respond, but also their ignorance in providing you the documents (if they have any).

As for chances of success, its 50/50 really. It means that Lowell will have to file a defence to your counterclaim rather than ignore you and if they do then you obtain judgment meaning strike out of the case. I don't think they are used to counterclaims being made and is something I have sort of come up with to play them at their own game but only applies in relevant circumstances. There is a court case which although not directly applicable to you based on the facts, the judge did point out that if a claimant didn't conduct initial investigations as to the merits of the case to properly plead its claim, they have no right to bring a claim in the first place and its an abuse of process.

The other purpose of the counterclaim is to keep things moving forward to trial. You say the account is around 5 years old so depending on when Vodafone terminated the defence of limitation may arise and the issuing of this claim without enough facts prevents the clock from running and you relying on that defence, again an abuse of process. Here's a short quote from the case to help you undestand:

If there is insufficient knowledge to begin the process of putting together Particulars of Claim, without the need for "something to turn up", there is no known or valid basis for a claim to be made. The generality of an endorsement may or may not show the absence of any ability to formulate a claim and an investigation of the underlying position may often be necessary in order to establish whether there is a known basis for a claim which can properly be pleaded in Particulars of Claim, on the knowledge then available, given time to put what is known into a pleading.

It may also pave the way for negotiations to settle the claim or offer to repay in instalments without you having a CCJ in your name and affectng you for the next 6 years.

I can only offer you the options but is up to you which route you want to take.

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Hi, just a update to say I have had no correspondence from either Vodafone or Lowell from any of the letters I sent.

I have had no time recently to make a draft so will look tomorrow so I can gather some help

Thanks

[enabled]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

Hi Rob, sorry for taking so long. Can you look through this and let me know where I can make amendments please, I know previously you mentioned this to add in but would like some help on where to enter this at please.

If you have already acknowledged the claim you have 33 days from the date of issue to file and serve a defence. There's a few doubts you can raise within your defence in that you received no termination letter from Vodafone (the SAR should hopefully prove if this was done or not) but also that they have failed to sufficiently identify how the amount has been calculated. If you do recall having 3 lines under one account then it would also mean that they have different contractual dates and would technically require 3 termination letters unless Vodafone gave you notice to cancel all three within the same letter. You also say that the amount being claimed appears to be incorrect too, this is also something which could be raised as an issue.

This is defense so far filled in with the basic information


1: I received the claim xxxxxxxx from Northampton County Court on 26^th August 2016

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3: This claim is for a telecommunications agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

[5. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.]

6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from Vodafone to Lowell on 30/06/2015. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

7. It is denied that Vodafone served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

8: On the 06/09/2016 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Lowell Solicitors . I requested the Claimant provide copies of my contract terms and conditions, default notice and termination letters

9. Lowell Solicitors has not sent any of these documents to me.

10. On the 03/09/2016 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Lowell pursuant to section [77 or 78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

11. The Claimant has failed to comply with [s77 (1) / s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

13. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

15. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.



Signed …………………………………………

Dated .................................................. ....


I assume the work needs to go into section 5 but not quite sure on what and how to word that section.

Thanks

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court letter from Lowell - Old Vodafone debt

I assume the work needs to go into section 5 but not quite sure on what and how to word that section.

The PoC does not state a date on which the agreement was entered into; if it were me I'd leave the wording of para 5 as it is.